Hi,
Firstly thanks for the amazing site, really helpful.
Is there an inyan to read Shema at Vasikin without Shemona Esrey after?
I always thought not, as the Gemorah on 9b clearly seems to set out that the point of it is in order to DAVEN at the optimal time. However my longheld view is being challenged by the Gemorah on 25b, where it seems advantageous to say Shema at Vasikin. (One assumes that the gentleman did not also daven in the Mikva!) But what is the advantage of doing so - 9b says only for tefilla its an advantage?
many thanks
Yehuda Neuberger, london uk
See Rashi (9a, D"H d'Ksiv) who seems to suggest that the importance of davening k'Vasikin comes from reciting Kerias Shema at Netz haChamah - not from praying the Amidah then. The NETZIV (Meromei Sadei, Berochos, 22b) says that this is also the Shitah of the BEHAG and the She'iltos, in which case there might be good reason to recite Keri'as Shema then even if one is not going to daven Shacharis until later.
However, on further examination of the comments of Rashi there, it seems that the real focus is the Shemoneh Esreh and not Keri'as Shema. For example, the end of the Pasuk - "Yira'ucha Im Shemesh" - which is the source for davening k'Vasikin - says "Lifnei Yare'ach Dor Dorim" which according to Rashi is referring to davening the Shemoneh Esreh of Minchah just before sunset. This suggests that the beginning of the Pasuk is also referring to Shemoneh Esreh. The Rambam says explicitly in Perush ha'Mishnayos (Mishnah on Daf 22b) that the point of reciting Keri'as Shema before Netz is in order to Daven Shemoneh Esreh at Netz.
Regarding your question on the Gemara on Daf 25b: how is one to daven Shemoneh Esreh in the water in the case where he had to recite Keri'as Shema in the water? The Netziv says that the Mishnah works out well according to the BEHAG. But what about according to the Rambam and - probably - Rashi?
The Gemara there asks, "How can he recite Keri'as Shema if his chest is in plain view of his Ervah?" See the Biur ha'Gra (OC, 74:2) who asks why the Gemara doesn't answer its question by saying that the person's chest is out of the water? The Vilna Gaon answers that the Gemara is speaking about a case where the person is also going to Daven Shemoneh Esreh, and therefore his chest needs to be covered as well. So, in fact, the person is davening in the Mikveh!
Kol Tuv,
Yonasan Sigler
This is not a Psak Halacah
Dear Rav Sigler,
I realize this is quite late and the kollel is dealing with different matters now, I happen to be osek in mesechta brachos and came across this letter and your excellent response. I just wanted to add that Rabbeinu Yona's shita is far more explicit regarding the inyan of Kriyas shma samuch lenetz as being a mitzvah lechatchila independent of the need to say shmoneh esreh immediately at hanetz hachama. See Rabbeinu yona's extensive disucssion in dapei haRif 4b and 5a. He brings as a proof the gemara brachos 25b, and says that certainly he was not going to be davening shmona esrei in the mikvah (against shitas hagra). He uses the pasuk of yiraucha im shemesh as his makor. (Also interesting to note his discussion of the Rif's need to explain how to time tfilas vasikin and R' Akiva Eigers rejection of R' Yona's shita).
Many thanks for your excellent work and warm regards,
Ori Rackovsky
New York, NY
Thanks for the kind words and very relevant comments.
Kol Tuv,
Yonasan Sigler