More Discussions for this daf
1. Keri'as Shema - biblical or rabbinic? 2. Day and then night 3. Eating in the dark
4. Temimus 5. The posuk beshochbicha uvikumecha 6. Zman Krias Shma
7. earliest time to say Shema in the evening 8. Uva Hashemesh Vetaher 9. When does a poor man eat?
10. Be'arvin 11. What to read 12. The poor man's meal
13. Being Motzi another person with Shema 14. Eating korbanot until chatzot 15. The opposite of Tahor....
16. Sitting during Shema 17. Charts 18. When does Day Begin?
19. Does the Ri agree with the Yerushalmi 20. va'Yehi Erev va'Yehi Voker Yom Echad 21. Berachos 002: Shema
22. Kri'as Shema 23. To keep a person from Aveirah 24. Night or Day?
25. mi'Sha'ah sheha'Kohanim 26. Where do the Kohanim eat Terumah? 27. "reading" ; what about Kohanim?
28. Sof Zeman Shema 29. Second Answer of the Gemara 30. Zemanim
31. Rashi's Shitah for early Ma'ariv 32. Different Shitos in Shema 33. k'Sus ha'Zeh she'Eino Nirdam
34. Sunrise and Sunset 35. Translation of the Word "mi'Chi" 36. Tzeis or Bein ha'Shemashos
37. When do the Poor Eat? 38. The Gemara's Second Answer 39. Ashkenazi Keri'as Shema at Bedtime
40. Sunrise / Sunset 41. Iy Ba'is Eima 42. Which Shi'ur is earlier?
43. Zman Shema 44. When An Ani Eats His Bread 45. Rabeinu Tam in Tosfos
46. Is there a typo in the first Tosfos? 47. Times for Keri'as Shema 48. Tosfos and Rebbi Yehoshua Ben Levi
49. Codewords for Time of Earliest Kerias Shema 50. Me'eimasai 51. Korei vs Kor'in
52. Tzeis ha'Kochavim 53. Latest time 54. Time for saying Shema
55. בערבין 56. מתי אוכלים העניים 57. משעה שהעני אוכל פתו
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 2

Mayer Levin asks:

According to v'Ani u'Bnei Adam Lav Chada Shiura (22 lines from bottom), which of the 2 is earlier?

Mayer Levin, NYC USA

The Kollel replies:

The Pnei Yehoshua (DH Sham Lo Ani) proves that "Bnei Adam" is an earlier time. The proof goes as follows:

1) First, the Pnei Yehoshua asks why does the Gemara not ask at this stage which Shi'ur is the earlier one, in the same way that the Gemara asks (8 lines from the end of the Daf) which Shi'ur -- the pauper and the Kohen -- is earlier? The Pnei Yehoshua answers

that this is because it is obvious that the Kohen eats later than Bnei Adam. The proof for this is the fact that there is a dispute between the Chachamim and Rebbi Meir in the Beraisa, where the Chachamim maintain the Shi'ur of Kohen while Rebbi Meir maintains

the Shi'ur of Bnei Adam. The Chachamim cite a proof from "Mishmar" that the day continues until the stars come out. This implies that the Chachamim are trying to disprove the opinion of Rebbi Meir, who must hold that once the sun goes down, it is already night (as the Gemara states, 29 lines from the end of the Daf, "v'Chi Teima mi'Chi Arva Shimsha Lailah Hu," which suggests that Rebbi Meir himself holds that "Arva Shimsha" is indeed night).

2) We now know that Rebbi Meir holds "Arva Shimsha," which therefore is the Shi'ur of Bnei Adam. This proves that the time of Kohen must be later than the time of Bnei Adam.

3) Therefore, since the Gemara at this stage (21 lines from the end of the Daf) maintains that Ani and Kohen are the same time, it follows that since Kohen is later than Bnei Adam, Ani must also be later then Bnei Adam.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom