More Discussions for this daf
1. Keri'as Shema - biblical or rabbinic? 2. Day and then night 3. Eating in the dark
4. Temimus 5. The posuk beshochbicha uvikumecha 6. Zman Krias Shma
7. earliest time to say Shema in the evening 8. Uva Hashemesh Vetaher 9. When does a poor man eat?
10. Be'arvin 11. What to read 12. The poor man's meal
13. Being Motzi another person with Shema 14. Eating korbanot until chatzot 15. The opposite of Tahor....
16. Sitting during Shema 17. Charts 18. When does Day Begin?
19. Does the Ri agree with the Yerushalmi 20. va'Yehi Erev va'Yehi Voker Yom Echad 21. Berachos 002: Shema
22. Kri'as Shema 23. To keep a person from Aveirah 24. Night or Day?
25. mi'Sha'ah sheha'Kohanim 26. Where do the Kohanim eat Terumah? 27. "reading" ; what about Kohanim?
28. Sof Zeman Shema 29. Second Answer of the Gemara 30. Zemanim
31. Rashi's Shitah for early Ma'ariv 32. Different Shitos in Shema 33. k'Sus ha'Zeh she'Eino Nirdam
34. Sunrise and Sunset 35. Translation of the Word "mi'Chi" 36. Tzeis or Bein ha'Shemashos
37. When do the Poor Eat? 38. The Gemara's Second Answer 39. Ashkenazi Keri'as Shema at Bedtime
40. Sunrise / Sunset 41. Iy Ba'is Eima 42. Which Shi'ur is earlier?
43. Zman Shema 44. When An Ani Eats His Bread 45. Rabeinu Tam in Tosfos
46. Is there a typo in the first Tosfos? 47. Times for Keri'as Shema 48. Tosfos and Rebbi Yehoshua Ben Levi
49. Codewords for Time of Earliest Kerias Shema 50. Me'eimasai 51. Korei vs Kor'in
52. Tzeis ha'Kochavim 53. Latest time 54. Time for saying Shema
55. בערבין 56. מתי אוכלים העניים 57. משעה שהעני אוכל פתו
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 2

Elimelech M. Guttman asked:

Dear Mordecai,

Rash"i D"H M'shehayuny " she'ein lo ner l'hadlik b'seuduso"

Rash"i seems to be implying the latest possible moment that there is still light from the sky [so that the poorman can see what he is eating]

From the Maskana, that this zman is later than zman kohen, we understand clearly that zman uny is at night after tzeis when it is already pitch dark

If Rashi is implying, that at this point we understand, that there is still light in the sky, then what is the whole shakla v'taryuh whether or not it is the same as zman kohen [it is definitely not]? And if it means after tzeis,(like the maskana), then what light can there be in the sky?

I had thought to answer (like the maskana) that there are different levels of darkness in the night - where only the poorman's eyes can still see since they are accustomed to using the smallest amount of light possible.

But it is impossible, since the gemorah equates 'tahar yuma' with 'tzeis' it seems that there is no light in the sky whatsoever!

How did you understand this Rashi?

The Kollel replies:

Elimelech,

Your question is truly insightful. I'm glad you asked it, since we were bothered by the same question -- if the poorman eats after Tzeis ha'Kochavim, how does he save himself a candle? It's too dark to see anyhow! We looked around a bit but didn't find anyone who discussed it.

I believe the answer is that after Tzeis, all is not yet dark. It is still much lighter shortly afterwards, than much afterwards. The Vilna Gaon touches upon this in the beginning of Berachos: Tzeis is when 3 middle sized stars can be seen, but there is still much light in the sky. (This is as opposed to Alos ha'Shachar, according to hthe Vilna Gaon, which occurs as soon as the first ray of light reaches a place on earth.)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us, and keep it up!

-Mordecai Kornfeld