More Discussions for this daf
1. Interrupting Kerias Shema For Kavod 2. Bitul Mitzvas Tefilin 3. Halacha about greeting someone before davening
4. R. Hiyya bar Abba, bottom of 14b 5. Hallel on Rosh Chodesh 6. Kashe on rashi
7. Dreams Once a Week 8. Not to Interrupt Between Elokeichem and Emes 9. Questions on 14a
10. Rebbi Yonah's statement 11. Tefillin Every Day
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 14

Etane asks:

Good morning Rav,

I have a question regarding Greeting someone brefore davening.

The Shulchan aruch states :"when the time of prayer has arrived, it is forbidden for a person to arrive early to the door of one's friend to greet him (lit. "give them a 'shalom'"), since the name of the Holy Blessed One is "Shalom", but it is permitted to say to him, "tzafra d'mari tav". And even this is not allowed other than when it is needed to go to see to a matter of business, but if one is only going to greet before prayer, even this phrase is forbidden".

What does the sentence "when it is needed to go to see to a matter of business"mean?

So the MAGEN AVRAHAM and the MACHATSIT HASHEKEL explain that it can't mean he is going to the house of his friend for a certain Essek(let's say to fetch a key) because then it would even be allowed to say SHALOM.The proof is that the Shulchan Aruch states :"And if one encounters him on the way, it is permitted to say Shalom".So what would be the difference whether he encounters him on the way or in his house.Therefore the Magen avraham explains that here it means he is going out for a certain business(let's say to the market place) and by the way he is going to his friend's house to greet him .That's why Shalom you may not say but TSAFRA DEMARE TAV you can.

However,if you look at the Mekor of that law(the Talmide Rabbenu Yona),we will see that that doesn't seem to be the simple meaning .Rather Rabbenu Yona would speak about a case where a personn is going to the house of his friend to search something(like to fetch a key).In such a case he wouldn't be allowed to say SHALOM but he can say TSAFRA DEMARE TAV.

Now regarding the question of the Magen Avraham and the Mahatsit hashekel on that pshat,the Gaon and the Bach seem to give an answer.Indeed ,the Bach says almost explicitely that there is a difference between the case he encountered him in the street and the case he went to his friend's house for a certain essek.In the case he encountered him in the street it was BEAKRAY(INCIDENTAL)meaning that he didn't know he was going to meet him.On the other hand when he went to his friend's house for a certain essek, he knew for sure he was going to encounter him .So it is not incidental.The gaon also says the same thing quoting even Tosfot.

The problem is that now there is a big Nafke mina between the interpretation of the Magen avraham and the one of the Bach.Indeed according to the Bach if I go directly to my friend's house for a certain business ,when I encounter him I will not be allowed to greet him using the term SHALOM,whereas according to the Magen avraham I may say Shalom.

Moreover,according to the Magen Avraham if go to the marketplace and by the way i go to my friend's house to greet him ,I will be allowed to say "Tsafra demare tav",whereas according to the Bach there will not be any source for that ruling.

My question is why all the latest Acharonim(as far i know ) have all chosen the interpretation of the Magen Avraham though it seems to be a Dochak,and haven't ruled in acordance with the Bach? Plus,I haven't seen anyone raising this issue!

Etane, Paris

The Kollel replies:

Hi Etane,

I enjoyed very much the way you summarized the issue clearly and in detail, according to all opinions.

I will only comment on your words, that I do not see any problem in the Rabeinu Yona, the way that the Magen Avraham understands him. Rabeinu Yona says that if a person 'goes to see a business from his businesses', but does not enter into the question of whether this business is at his friend's house or in the market and he only enters his friend's on the way there.

Regarding what you said that the Achronim do not bring the opinion of the Gaon and the Bach, here too, the Biur Halacha in the Mishna Berura brings them, and states that they are 'Machmir'. I assume that in such a law, which is de'Rabanan, there is no tendency to Machmir. I also think the tendency of the Mishna Berura is to be Posek like the Magen Avraham unless there are many who disagree.

Best Regards,

Aharon Steiner