Greetings. I wanted to understand what Abaye means by calling Yochanan Yannai in Berachos 29, when Yannai was actually the SON of Yochanan Hyrkanus, the son of Shimon the Macabbee. In any case neither Yannai nor his father lived 80 years. The gemara doesn't even point this out. It only mentions the difference between originally wicked and originally righteous.
The assumption would be that this kohen gadol actually was the FATHER of Matisyahu during the period when we have no other knowledge of a kohen gadol after Shimon Hatzaddik (except for the confusing descriptions of Josephus).
Come to think of it, I don't think Abaye in Berachos 29 means that Yannai was Yochanan Kohen Gadol. I think he means he ended up a Tsadoki like his ancestor, later in life. I haven't seen meforshim but that's just my hunch.
Thanks.
David Goldman, USA
Dear David,
Hello there and thank you for your interesting comments. I cannot solve all the issues you raised, but I hope I can shed some light on the subject. The Gra, who was aware of other historical sources, explains that there was Yochanan Hyrkanus who had a son named Yannai. The issue is who is the Yochanan Kohen Gadol mentioned in the Mishnah? Is it referring to Yochanan Hyrkanus, in which case we see that a person who began his life as a Tzaddik can make an absolute switch, or is it referring to Yannai, who did not begin his career on the right foot in the first place?
Regarding the name issue, it is important to point out that the Chasmonai kings had more than one name. On coins bearing their names, they have a Hebrew name on one side and a Greek name on the other. Yannai, appears on coins with the Hebrew name of Yonasan and the Greek name of Alexander so he had at least two Hebrew names.
I have no solution for the eighty year issue. I'm afraid though that your attempt to associate him with the father of Matisyahu will also run into various problems. There doesn't seem to be any possible time in Josephus' chronology to put in this Kohen Gadol serving eighty years. This also would mean that the father of Matisyahu became a Tzadoki, something which must be checked whether or not is historically possible.
Thanks again for your email.
Kol tuv,
Y. Landy
Yes, thanks.
Actually I saw in Seder Hadoros that both Yannai and his father used the name Yannai with regard to the issue of becoming a tsaddoki. So Abaye is referring to Hyrkanus/Yannai which would correspond to Josephus's version. I was thinking that Yochanan Kohen Gadol as
1) not actually THE Kohen Gadol, but merely a "great priest;
2) That the version of the history of the priesthood brought by Josephus is incorrect as some have already questioned the references to Menelaus and Jason, thereby presenting the possibility that Yochanan was high priest, the father of Matisyahu, for a long period. Yochanan Hyrkanus did not even live 80 years according to the sources, nor did his son.