More Discussions for this daf
1. Non Animal Offerings 2. Do the Frugal Rich have Sour Dips or Cucumbers on their Table? 3. מאין היו מביאין את היין
DAF DISCUSSIONS - MENACHOS 86

Alex Lebovits asks:

1.R' Chiya threw out anpikanon , since it is considered a seraf and not an oil and therefore if brought for Menochas it is Posul; not like the Mishna.

The Gem. then brings a proof from R. Shimon bar Rebbi that since he dipped his food into it, anpikanon, it is considered an oil and therefore should be included in the Mishna under oils which are unacceptable; however if brought, are kosher for Menachos.

But how is this a proof that it is an oil? Since nothing was ever missing from Rebbi's table, wouldn't he have sour cucumbers as well?! Don't we also see from the Hagadah that we are matbilin shney peamim, and none of those are in oil?!

2. My understanding is that rich people are mekamtzin due to the fact that they worked long and hard for their money; but I would think that the children of the rich act completely opposite to that, since money came to them effortlessly. If this is true, then the siman of the Gem. might be only good as a siman, but in fact; not true. Please comment.

3. Why did R' Chiya throw out anpiknon?

(a) If anpikanon is thrown out, why go through the trouble of making it in the first place?

(b) Tzadikim value even their pachim ketanim?!

Thank you for considering my questions.

Have a Gut Shabbes!

Alex Lebovits

The Kollel replies:

Dear Alex,

1. The Gemara does not mean that dipping is done only in oil. Dipping can be done into any normal "worthy" liquid. The question is whether Anpikinun is a grade-A dip or grade-B. If Rebbi Shimon used it, this shows that it is proper for use, and it is worthy to be called oil. Rebbi Chiya considered it grade-B and not worthy of use.

2. The Gemara anyway is only a Siman to help the memory recall correctly. Actually, there are both generous and miserly rich people, both first generation and second.

3. Tosfos (DH Zarik) understands that he did not eat it, but he did use it as a hair remover and skin oiler. "Throwing out" means only that it was not fit for eating.

All the best,

Reuven Weiner