when we discuss these hardened limbs, and as the shita says that the moisture is completely seared out, does that mean that the marrow is also completely dried out or is it intact ?
morris smith, usa
It seems to me that the marrow also has burnt up. My proof for this is Tosfos in Zevachim 97b (DH v'Echad, the third long line), where he seems to say that if one places a burning coal on the bone of the animal, this will remove the "Mo'ach," or marrow. (Rashi to Zevachim 97b also writes that if one eats the "Mo'ach" of the Korban Pesach one thereby fulfills the Mitzvah of eating the meat of the Korban Pesach, so we see that marrow is considered meat.) The source for the statement of Tosfos is the Gemara in Chulin 11a, which states that if one places a coal on the skull of an animal this will burn up the brain membrane.
So it would appear that if the limbs are burned in the way that our Gemara describes, one could assume that the marrow would be totally burned up.
Kol Tuv,
Dovid Bloom
1) I must apologize for a mistake I made in the above response. Tosfos does not write that when one places the coal on the bone of the Korban Pesach, this burns up the marrow. Rather, Tosfos means that when one places the coal on the bone, this burns a hole in the bone, and one can then remove the marrow and eat it and thereby fulfill the Mitzvah of eating the Korban. See Pesachim 84b, where the Gemara says that burning the bone of the Korban Pesach is not included in the prohibition of breaking the bones.
2) However, I still support my assertion that in our Gemara (86b), when the fire devoured the entire limbs as Rashi writes, the marrow would also be burnt up. In fact, I think this is also suggested by the fact that the Gemara mentions (see Pesachim 84b) the idea of placing a coal on the bone, taking the marrow out and eating it. The fact that the Gemara mentions the coal suggests that if one would use a full fire this would burn up the marrow as well.
Dovid Bloom
Art Scroll -Rabbi Danziger- thinks differently. It cannot refer to just the bones because bones only go on the mizbe'ach when their meat is still attached to them and they are not returned to the mizbe'achonce the meat comes off.
Sherirei means that the meat became completely dried out by the fire, hard through and through, and not just singed on the outside but moist on the inside. However, it was not yet burnt to a crisp. See Rashi.
The Mikdash David 1:5:3 writes that bone marow is considered as meat for all purposes. Therefore, if the bones have come down from the Mizbe'ach and they contain marrow, they should be broken and the marrow should be returned to the Mizbe'ach. The Mikdash David writes that when the Mishnah (end of 85b) states that if the bones left the Mizbe'ach they should not be returned, this must be referring to bones without any marrow.
However, the Mikdash David then questions this assertion, because the bones may be considered a Chatzitzah between the marrow and the wood of the fire (see Gemara later, 110a, "veha'Ika Chatzitzah"). However, the Mikdash David writes that since the marrow is a natural part of the bone, it is possible that this is not considered a Chatzitzah. (In a similar way, the Gemara in Yevamos 78a-b states that when a pregnant mother immerses for Gerus, this is effective also for the fetus. The mother is not considered as a Chatzitzah between the water and the baby because this is the natural way of immersing.)
Yasher Ko'ach!
Dovid Bloom