More Discussions for this daf
1. Birkas v'Lamalshinim 2. Yehudah Ger Amoni 3. R. Gamliel and R. Elazar ben Azaryah
4. Bribes (Shochad) 5. Know before Whom you stand 6. Sancheriv
7. Shmuel ha'Katan 8. Raban Gamliel being reinstated as Nasi 9. May the Living Lie about the Dead?
10. The Right to Depose Raban Gamliel 11. Tocho K'Boro 12. "Nikra Poshe'a"
13. Chizkiyahu 14. Tocho K'Boro 15. Musaf after Seven Hours
16. Rebbi Shimon bar Yochai 17. Shimon bar Yochai 18. Rebbi Elazar ben Azaryah taking over the Nesi'us from Raban Gamliel
19. Praying for a friend in order to be answered first 20. Shmuel ha'Katan and Birkas ha'Minim 21. Zav
22. Which prayers require standing 23. R. Gamliel and R. Elazar ben Azaryah
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BERACHOS 28

Shaiky asks:

R. Yehoshua says he would have lied about what he said to Raban Gamliel if the latter were dead, but not to his face.

Is this Mutar because of Shalom Bayis? Or is R. Yehoshua trying to teach, don't go so far... What? Is there more info?

My Rabbi said what Raban Gamliel did wasn't so kosher, but it seems he was trying to change society, was he right?

Shaiky, LA,US

The Kollel replies:

Rav Reuven Margoliyos (author of Margaliyos ha'Yam, Yesod ha'Mishnah v'Arichasah, and many more) says that Rebbi Yehoshua in fact did not normally rule for everyone that Tefilas Arvis is Reshus. The Gemara makes a point of mentioning (28a) that the student to whom he said this was Raban Shimon ben Yochai, whom we know learned Torah nonstop. Rebbi Yehoshua was therefore saying that if Raban Shimon ben Yochai was not alive, there would be nobody who could claim that he gave a "Heter" not to Daven Ma'ariv, as the only person to whom he told this in a practical sense was Raban Shimon ben Yochai. This is why he said, "If he would be dead...," meaning that nobody would be able to say that I gave this leniency.

With regard to whether Raban Gamliel was right or not, the simple explanation of the Gemara (28a) is that he was not right regarding certain things, such as not letting more people into the Beis Midrash. It would seem that his approach towards Rebbi Yehoshua was also incorrect. However, he clearly had reasons for why he did what he did. (Rav Reuven Margliyos (Yesod ha'Mishnah) explains that his position was rooted in his outlook generally being like that of Beis Shamai (despite the fact that he was from a "Beis Hillel" family). However, explaining and proving this opinion is beyond the scope of this forum.)

(For an in-depth and comprehensive explanation, see Rav Yehonasan Eibshitz' beautiful (and lengthy) exposition in Ya'aros Devash II, Derush 17. -Y. Shaw)

All the best,

Yaakov Montrose