More Discussions for this daf
1. Chatas Asham Comparison 2. Teshuvah On An Aseh
DAF DISCUSSIONS - SHEVUOS 12

Daniel Gray asks:

The gemorah (bottom 12b) says that if a person did teshuva on transgressing an aseh, each day brings kaparah so that couldn't be the case of the person needing Yom Kippor to atone his cheit. Why didn't the gemorah say that YK is still needed for when the aseh the person was oiver was "veheisheiv es hagezailah" in an instance where he's done teshuva, can't be fully atoned by returning the stolen object (3 examples to follow) and thus needs YK to get full kapparah. 3 examples: (1) stole less than a shaveh prutah where Sanhedrin 57 explains such a case still bears wrongdoing in spite of there not being a mitzvas hashavah (2) stole from a ger who died (BK 109-110) (3) stole from the public and donates money to public causes but doesn't return the money to the victims and his public donation doesn't fully rectify his theft.

Daniel Gray, TORONTO Canada

The Kollel replies:

You assume that Yom Kippur can theoretically atone for any sin. However, the Mishnah in Yoma 85b explicitly says that Yom Kippur cannot atone for sins between man and his fellow man. The cases you mentioned are sins between man and his fellow man and therefore Yom Kippur would not help unless he mollified his friend.

The reason why the Gemara says that a person who stole from the public should donate to public causes is that the victims of the theft may eventually benefit from the public donation and that would constiture a Hashavah. In the case of a Ger, this is not possible, as the Gemara in Makkos 16b explains, because there is nobody who can accept the money. However, as the Gemara adds there, he could theoretically pay and therefore has not transgressed the Aseh of ve'Heishiv. However, Yom Kippur would not help, as I explained.

Yoel Domb

Daniel Gray asks:

Tks. You're looking at "veheisheiv es hagezailah" as strictly a sin between man and his fellow man and not a sin to G-d!? Doesn't Hashem view a Yid who steals as having committed a sin against him and that G-d's forgiveness for that aspect of the sin is (also) contingent upon the person returning the stolen object?

Assuming the later to be true, the original question remains.

PS Are you the R' Domb with whom I learned at same period at R Tzvi's?

Daniel Gray

The Kollel replies:

I agree that there is an element of Bein Adam la'Makom in this Mitzvah, but the Gemara in Kerisus 18b concludes that on less than a Shaveh Perutah of theft, Yom Kippur cannot atone. The reason for this is explained at length in responsa Torah Lishmah 147 (by the Ben Ish Chai.)

As for the Ger who died, the Torah defines the atonement: one gives the sum of the theft to the Kohanim. Since this is the required atonement, even when one does not give the Kohanim (such as in our time), Yom Kippur does not atone for such a sin, even on the part between man and G-d.

With regard to one who stole public funds, it would appear that once he has done what is required to return the theft, he does not have to wait for Yom Kippur to achieve atonement from Heaven. (This answer could serve for Gezel ha'Ger as well.)

P.S. Yes, we were together at Rav Tzvi's in the period of 1990-1992!

Yoel Domb