IS A BEN PEKU'AH AN INDEPENDENT ANIMAL?
Question: If the slaughtered mother becomes Tamei, does the Ben Peku'ah become a Rishon (first-degree) l'Tumah with its mother, or does it become a Sheni l'Tumah from its mother?
Answer #1 (R. Yochanan): It becomes a Sheni.
Answer #2 (Reish Lakish): It becomes a Rishon. The mother is like a protective shell around it. They become Tamei together.
Question (Reish Lakish - Mishnah - R. Meir): The fetus is like meat that touched a Nevelah;
Chachamim say, it is like meat that touched a slaughtered Terefah.
According to me (Reish Lakish), we understand why the fetus is Huchshar. It and its mother are considered to be one animal;
You (R. Yochanan) consider the fetus to be separate. How did it become Huchshar?
Answer (R. Yochanan): The Mishnah is like R. Shimon, who says that Shechitah is Machshir. (Since Shechitah permits (the mother and) the fetus, it is also Machshir the fetus.)
Question (R. Yochanan - Beraisa): If a Ben Peku'ah passed through a river, it became Huchshar. If it walked through a cemetery, it became Tamei.
According to me, we understand why it is not Huchshar (through its mother's Shechitah, rather,) until it goes through the river, for it is considered distinct from its mother;
You (Reish Lakish) hold that they are like one animal. It should be Huchshar due to the Shechitah!
Answer: The case is, no blood exuded when the mother was slaughtered. The Beraisa is unlike R. Shimon (who says that Shechitah itself is Machshir).
Question: Who is the Tana of the Beraisa, who holds that a Ben Peku'ah can become Huchshar and Tamei?
Answer (R. Yochanan): It is R. Yosi ha'Gelili;
(Beraisa - R. Yosi ha'Gelili): A Ben Peku'ah can receive Tum'as Ochlim. It needs Hechsher;
Chachamim say, it is alive, and anything alive cannot receive Tum'as Ochlim.
This is consistent with another teaching of R. Yochanan.
(R. Yochanan): R. Yosi ha'Gelili and Beis Shamai agree about this matter.
(Mishnah - Beis Shamai): Fish are Mekabel Tum'ah from when they are trapped;
Beis Hillel say, it is from when they die;
R. Akiva says, it is from when they cannot survive.
Question: What is the difference between R. Akiva and Beis Hillel (Rashi; Tosfos - between R. Akiva and Beis Shamai)?
Answer (R. Yochanan): They argue about a fish that is jumping around. (Rashi - However, it dried up and it will die; Tosfos - it was trapped, but it could survive.)
Question (Rav Chisda): Does R. Akiva consider Terefah fish to be unable to live?
We can ask this according to either opinion regarding Terefah animals;
According to the opinion that Terefah animals can live, since fish have less vitality, perhaps Terefah fish cannot live.
According to the opinion that Terefah animals cannot live, perhaps since Shechitah does not apply to fish, Terefos do not apply, either.
This question is unresolved.
CHELEV OF FETUSES
Version #1 (R. Yochanan): If an animal miscarried, the Chelev of the child is forbidden like Chelev of a Behemah;
(Reish Lakish): It is permitted, like Chelev of a Chayah.
R. Yochanan holds that since it was born, the fetus is considered a Behemah;
Reish Lakish says, it is considered a Behemah only if it was born after the full term (of pregnancy.)
Version #2: If it miscarried before the full term, all permit the Chelev;
They argue about Chelev extracted from a living fetus after the full term.
(R. Yochanan): It is like Chelev of a Behemah, since the fetus had full development;
(Reish Lakish): It is permitted, because the fetus was not born.
Version #1 - Question (R. Yochanan - Beraisa): Chelev and the kidneys of an Asham are Huktar (burned on the Mizbe'ach). We are never Maktir Chelev of a fetus (inside an Asham, for it is always a male);
We learn to all Korbanos (even females), that Chelev of a fetus is not offered.
This is like my opinion, that Chelev of a fetus is forbidden (like the rest of the Chelev of the animal). Therefore we must learn that it is not offered;
According to you, it is permitted. Surely, it is not offered!
Answer (Reish Lakish): I learn from here. Surely, the Chelev is not offered because it is permitted!
Version #2 - Question (Reish Lakish - Beraisa): Chelev and the kidneys of an Asham are Huktar. We are not Maktir Chelev of a fetus;
We learn to all Korbanos that Chelev of a fetus is not offered.
This is like my opinion, that Chelev of a fetus is permitted. Therefore, it is not offered;
According to you, it is forbidden. Why can't it be offered?
Answer (R. Yochanan): (Every part of) the fetus is like an animal less than eight days old, which is too young to be offered.
SHECHITAH OF A TEREFAH
(R. Ami): If one slaughters a Terefah and finds a full term fetus inside:
In our Mishnah, R. Meir forbids (a Ben Peku'ah until it is slaughtered. Therefore), he permits this fetus through Shechitah;
Chachamim, who permit in our Mishnah, forbid this fetus, even if it is slaughtered.
(Rava): All permit this fetus through its own Shechitah. The Torah permits a fetus through Shechitah of its mother (if she is Kosher) or through its own Shechitah.
(Rav Chisda): If one slaughters a Terefah and finds a full term fetus inside, the child must be slaughtered, and the foreleg, jaw and stomach (Matanos to the Kohen) must be given;
If it dies, it does not Metamei b'Masa (i.e. one who moves it.)
Question (Rabah): You require the child to be slaughtered. This is like R. Meir;
How can you say that if it dies, it does not Metamei b'Masa? That is like Chachamim!
Counter-question (Rav Chisda - Beraisa - R. Chiya): If one slaughters a Terefah and finds a full term fetus inside, the child must be slaughtered, and Matanos must be given;
If it dies, it does not Metamei b'Masa.
(Summation of counter-question): The child must be slaughtered. This is like R. Meir. If it dies, it is not Metamei b'Masa. This is like Chachamim!
Answer (Rabah): In the Seifa, the fetus died before the mother was slaughtered. R. Meir admits in that case.
Question (Rabah, to Rav Chisda): You did not give that answer. How do you answer (question (e))?
Answer (Rav Chisda): Chachamim permit a fetus through Shechitah of its mother (if she is Kosher) or through its own Shechitah. (When the mother is Terefah, they agree that the only Heter is through Shechitah of the child.)
R. Zeira taught like Rav Chisda.
R. Asi: Very good! Also R. Yochanan taught like this!
Inference: (R. Asi did not say that also Reish Lakish taught like this, even though he always learned with R. Yochanan.) Presumably, Reish Lakish argues!
Version #1 - Rejection: Reish Lakish normally waits before contesting R. Yochanan's teachings. R. Asi did not wait to see whether he argued.
Version #2 - Rejection: Reish Lakish was drinking when R. Yochanan taught this. R. Asi did not wait to see whether he argued.
A BEN PEKU'AH THAT GREW UP
(Mishnah): R. Shimon Shezuri says...
Question: This is like Chachamim!
Answer (Rav Kahana): They argue in a case that the child stepped on the floor. (Chachamim decree that it must be slaughtered, lest people come to eat (regular) animals without Shechitah.)
(Rav Mesharshiya): According to Chananya (who says that the father partially influences status of the child), if a Ben Peku'ah mates with a normal female, even Shechitah does not permit the child. (It is as if the child is half slaughtered. There is no way to complete the Shechitah.)
Version #1 (Abaye): Chachamim agree that a Ben Peku'ah with unsplit hooves does not need Shechitah, even if it stepped on the ground;
This is because people remember bizarre things. (They will remember that it was a Ben Peku'ah. They will not think that animals do not need Shechitah.)
Version #2 (Abaye): If a Ben Peku'ah with unsplit hooves was found inside a (Shach - regular; Bach - Ben Peku'ah) mother with unsplit hooves, Chachamim agree that the child does not need Shechitah, even if it stepped on the ground;
People remember doubly bizarre things. (end of Version #2)
(Ze'iri): The Halachah follows R. Shimon Shezuri. He permits all offspring of a Ben Peku'ah (without Shechitah) for all generations;
(R. Yochanan): It is permitted. Its child is forbidden.
Ada bar Chabo had a Ben Peku'ah that was Nidras by a wolf.
Rav Ashi: Go slaughter it.
Ada bar Chabo: Ze'iri said that the Halachah follows R. Shimon Shezuri (Shechitah is not needed even for the offspring)! Also R. Yochanan does not require slaughtering a Ben Peku'ah!
Rav Ashi: R. Yochanan said that only according to R. Shimon Shezuri. (The Halachah follows Chachamim.)
Ada bar Chabo: Ravin said that the Halachah follows R. Shimon Shezuri wherever he appears in the Mishnayos!
Rav Ashi: I hold like R. Yonason, that the Halachah follows him only regarding a dangerously sick man and Terumas Ma'aser of Demai (doubtfully tithed produce).
(Mishnah): At first, if a man said only 'write a Get for my wife', (we would write it, but) we would give it only of he was being taken to his execution;
Later, they said that we give it also if he was departing on a boat or with a caravan;
R. Shimon Shezuri says, we give it also if he was dangerously sick.
(Mishnah - R. Shimon Shezuri): If Terumas Ma'aser was separated on Demai, and it became mixed with the (99 parts of) Demai it was separated for, even if this was not on Shabbos, the seller (of the Demai) is believed to say that he had separated Ma'aser. (If so, the buyer's separation was void, and the mixture is permitted.)