POINT BY POINT OUTLINE

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prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim

daf@dafyomi.co.il, www.dafyomi.co.il

Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld

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SHABBOS 8

Ask the
Kollel

1) THROWING A BASKET

(a) (Abaye): If one threw a [wicker] basket that is 10 Tefachim tall [from Reshus ha'Yachid] to Reshus ha'Rabim:

1. If its width (diameter) is less than six Tefachim wide, he is liable. If it is more than six, he is exempt. (Since it contains a square more than four by four, it itself is a Reshus ha'Yachid. Really, he is exempt whenever it is wide enough to contain such a square, i.e. slightly more than five and three fifths. Abaye was not precise.)

(b) (Rava): Even if it is not six wide, he is exempt.

(d) Answer: Surely, strands [of the basket] extend above 10 Tefachim, so part of the basket is in Mekom Petur.

(e) Version #1 (Rashi): [If it is not six wide], if he turned it over [so the opening faces down]:

1. [Even] if it is Mashehu [a tiny amount] more than seven tall, he is liable. (Even when it is considered to be Munach due to Lavud, i.e. a Halachah from Sinai that Mechitzos less than three Tefachim apart are considered connected, i.e. it is within three Tefachim of the ground, it is entirely in Reshus ha'Rabim.)

2. If it is seven and a half (or even seven and two "Mashehu"s) tall, he is exempt. (When it is three Tefachim less Mashehu off the ground, it is considered Munach, and part is in Mekom Petur.)

(f) Version #2 (Tosfos): [If it is six wide], if he turned it over:

1. [Even] if it is just over seven tall, he is liable. (It is not considered Reshus ha'Yachid even when it is within three of the ground, for Lavud applies only to Mechitzos surrounding the airspace of a Reshus, but not to the walls around the bottom of the basket.)

2. If it is seven and a half (or even seven plus the thickness of the bottom wall plus Mashehu) tall, he is exempt. (It is considered Reshus ha'Yachid when it is within three of the ground). (end of Version #2)

(g) (Rav Ashi): Even if it is seven and a half, he is liable.

(h) Question: What is the reason?

(i) Answer: Walls of a Kli serve to store things inside. (Therefore, we do not apply Lavud to extend them downwards.)

2) USAGE WITH DIFFICULTY

(a) (Ula): If a pillar in Reshus ha'Rabim is nine Tefachim tall and many people use it to adjust loads (e.g. on their backs), if one threw something and it landed on the pillar, he is liable. (Rashi (on 91b) requires it to be four wide. Rashi here does not. Rosh - it can be up to 10 Tefachim. Rashi, Rambam - it must be exactly nine. Ra'avad - many people must actually use it. Rambam - it suffices that it is proper for public use.)

(b) Question: What is the reason?

1. Something at least three but less than nine [is Mekom Petur, or Karmelis if it is at least four by four, for] people neither walk over it nor use it to adjust a load;

2. Something nine tall [is Reshus ha'Rabim, for] many use it to adjust loads.

(d) Question (Abaye): What is the law of a ditch [that is nine (Rashi; Tosfos - or less) Tefachim deep]?

(e) Answer #1 (Rav Yosef): A ditch has the same law [as a pillar].

(f) Answer #2 (Rava): A ditch is different. (It is Mekom Petur, or Karmelis if it is four by four.)

(g) Question: What is the reason?

(h) Answer: Usage with difficulty is not considered usage (to make it Reshus ha'Rabim. I.e. one must descend into the ditch in order to adjust a load on the ground next to it.)

(i) Question (Rav Ada bar Masnah, against Rava - Beraisa): If a box in Reshus ha'Rabim was 10 tall and four wide, one may not transfer from it to Reshus ha'Rabim or vice-versa;

1. If it is less than this, it is permitted.

2. The same applies to a ditch.

3. Suggestion: This last clause applies [even] to the Seifa. (Even if it is nine deep, it is permitted, for it is a Reshus ha'Rabim!)

(j) Answer: No, it applies [only] to the Reisha.

8b----------------------------------------8b

(k) Question (against Rava - Beraisa): (On Shabbos and Yom Tov, one may walk 2000 Amos in every direction from the place of his Shevisah (residence). One may declare a place to be his Shevisah if he leaves food nearby, in a place from which he could take it Bein ha'Shemashos (twilight, which is Safek day, Safek night). This is Eiruv Techumim.) If one intended to make Shevisah in Reshus ha'Rabim and left his Eiruv in a pit above 10 Tefachim, it is a valid Eiruv;

1. If it is below 10, it is invalid. [It is in a different Reshus, so he could not take the food Bein ha'Shemashos.]

2. Question: What is the case?

i. Suggestion: The pit is deeper than 10. 'Above' and 'below' refer to leaving the food more or less than 10 Tefachim above the bottom of the pit.

ii. Rejection: In either case [the entire pit is Reshus ha'Yachid,] he is in a different Reshus from his Eiruv! (It is invalid.)

3. Answer: If the bottom of the pit is higher than 10 [Tefachim below the ground], it is a valid Eiruv.

i. We must say, [such a pit is Reshus ha'Rabim because] usage with difficulty is considered usage!

(l) Answer #1 (Rava): No, it is Karmelis. The case is, also he is in a Karmelis;

1. The Beraisa called it Reshus ha'Rabim because it is not Reshus ha'Yachid.

(m) Answer #2 (Rava): The ditch is Karmelis, and he is in Reshus ha'Rabim;

1. The Beraisa is like Rebbi, who permits Shevus (mid'Rabanan Isurim of Shabbos, e.g. transferring from Karmelis to Reshus ha'Rabim) Bein ha'Shemashos.

(n) Rava: Don't think that my answer is inadequate. A Mishnah supports me!

1. (Mishnah): If Reshus ha'Rabim (many people) walk through [gravel covered by] a puddle, one who throws four Amos in it is Chayav.

i. The puddle must be less than 10 Tefachim [to be Reshus ha'Rabim].

2. If one throws into a puddle that many people walk through, he is liable.

3. Question: We understand why the Mishnah mentions "puddle" twice. It needs to teach that this applies in summer and winter;

i. Had it only taught about summer, we would have thought that that is because people often go there to cool off. (However, in winter it is not Reshus ha'Rabim);

ii. Had it only taught about winter, we would have thought that that is because [the ground everywhere is muddy, so] people often go there. (However, in summer it is not Reshus ha'Rabim.)

iii. However, why does the Mishnah mention 'walking' twice?

4. Answer: It teaches that walking with difficulty is considered walking, but usage with difficulty is not considered usage!

(o) (Rav Yehudah): If one transported a bundle of long reeds in Reshus ha'Rabim through repeatedly standing it on its end and casting it down in the desired direction, he is not liable unless he was Oker (moved the entire bundle four Amos without stopping in between. He is exempt even though this is the normal way to transport it, i.e. it is too heavy to carry.)

3) TRANSFERRING FROM A MEKOM PETUR

(a) (Beraisa): Someone standing on a threshold [between two Reshuyos] may take from or give to a Ba'al ha'Bayis [in Reshus ha'Yachid], or take from or give to an Oni [in Reshus ha'Rabim].

(b) Question: What is the status of the threshold?

1. If it is Reshus ha'Rabim, why may he take from the Ba'al ha'Bayis? He is Motzi from Reshus ha'Yachid to Reshus ha'Rabim!

2. If it is Reshus ha'Rabim, why may he take from the Oni? He brings from Reshus ha'Rabim to Reshus ha'Yachid!

(d) Objection: Mid'Rabanan, one may not transfer from Karmelis [to either Reshus]!

(e) Answer #2: It is Mekom Petur, e.g. it is less than four by four;

1. (Rav Dimi): If a place is less than four by four, both those in Reshus ha'Yachid and Reshus ha'Rabim may adjust loads on it, as long as they [people in different Reshuyos] do not switch loads.

(f) (Beraisa): He may not take from the Ba'al ha'Bayis and give the item to the Oni, nor vice-versa. If he did so, all three are exempt.

(g) Suggestion: This refutes Rava!

1. (Rava): One who transfers an item four Amos in Reshus ha'Rabim is liable, even if he carried it above 10 Tefachim (i.e. through Mekom Petur)!

(h) Rejection: No. in Rava's case [he is liable because] the item did not rest [in the middle]. Here, it was Nach [in the middleman's hands].

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