SANHEDRIN 17 (10 Av) - Dedicated by Mrs. G. Kornfeld, in memory of her father, Reb Yisrael Shimon ben Shlomo ha'Levi Turkel. Isi Turkel, as he was known, loved Torah and worked to support it literally with his last ounce of strength. He passed away on 10 Av 5740.

1) THE SANHEDRINS (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 8a)

משנה סנהדרין גדולה היתה של שבעים ואחד וקטנה של עשרים ושלשה

(a) (Mishnah): The Great Sanhedrin consisted of 71 judges and the small one consisted of 23 judges.

מניין לגדולה שהוא של שבעים ואחד שנאמר אספה לי שבעים איש מזקני ישראל ומשה על גביהן הרי שבעים ואחד

(b) What is the source for the Great Sanhedrin consisting of 71 judges? The pasuk states (Bamidbar 11:16), "Gather for me 70 men from the elders of Yisrael" with Moshe as the head (as learned from the next pasuk 'and they will bear with you the burden of the nation')- that makes 71.

רבי יהודה אומר שבעים

(c) (R. Yehuda): There are only 70 (as that pasuk 'and they will bear with you...' merely teaches that the elders must be similar to Moshe in their lineage and their traits).

ומניין לקטנה שהיא של עשרים ושלשה שנאמר ושפטו העדה והצילו העדה עדה שופטת ועדה מצלת הרי עשרים

(d) Question: What is the source for the small Sanhedrin consisting of 23 judges? The pasuk states (Bamidbar 35:24-25), "And they shall judge the congregation...and they will save the congregation" - a congregation (10 judges) will judge and a congregation (10 judges) will save - that makes 20 judges.

ומניין שהיא לעדה עשרה שנאמר עד מתי לעדה הרעה הזאת יצאו יהושע וכלב

1. What is the source that the word 'Eidah' - 'congregation' means 10 people? As the pasuk states (Bamidbar 14:27), "how long will there be this evil congregation" - in reference to the spies who came back from the Land of Israel with a bad report. There were 12 spies, but two of them did not sin - Yehoshua and Calev. The pasuk is addressing the rest of them, meaning 10 people.

ומניין להביא עוד שלשה ממשמע שנאמר לא תהיה אחרי רבים לרעות שומע אני שאמר היה עמהן לטובה

2. Question: What is the source for the other three judges required? From the pasuk (Shemos 23:2), "You should not follow after the majority to do evil" - I learn that I should not follow the majority to evil, but to do good, I should follow the majority.

ואם כן למה נאמר אחרי רבים להטות לא כהטייתך לטובה הטייתך לרעה הטייתך לטובה על פי עד אחד ולרעה על פי שנים אין בית דין שקול מוסיפין עליהן עוד אחד הרי עשרים ושלשה מאה ועשרים

3. If so, why did the pasuk also need to end by saying 'to follow after the majority'? The way you follow the bad should not be as you follow the good. Following the majority for the good can be done with a majority of only one; for the bad, two are required. Therefore, two extra judges are required in addition to the first twenty in order that there will potentially be 12 against 10 to save an innocent man. However, Beis Din must always comprise of an odd number, so there must be 23 judges.

וכמה יהא בעיר ותהא ראויה לסנהדרין

(e) Question: How many people must live in a city for it to have a small Sanhedrin?

מאה ועשרים

(f) Answer: (At least) 120 people.

רבי נחמיה אומר מאתים ושלשים כדי שרי עשרות:

(g) Answer #2 (R. Nechemiah): (At least) 230 people, so that each judge (of the 23) should preside over ten people of the city.

גמרא רבי בא רבי יסא בשם רבי יוחנן נאמר כאן עדה ונאמר להלן עד מתי לעדה הרעה מה לעדה האמורה להלן עשרה אף כאן עשרה.

(h) (Gemara)(R. Ba/ R. Yasa citing R. Yochanan): (The following Gezeirah Shavah is used to expound that ten men are needed in order to perform any public holy matter, such as reciting Kaddish, Kedushah, and Barchu etc.) - the word 'Eidah' (congregation) is used here (Vayikra 19:2, "speak to all of the congregation of the children of Israel and say to them, you shall be holy") and the word 'Eidah' is used there (Bamidbar 14:27, about the spies, "how long will there be this evil congregation". Just as there were ten evil spies, so too matters of holiness require ten people.

א"ר סימון נאמר כאן תוך ונאמר להלן תוך מה תוך שנאמר להלן עשרה אף כאן עשרה.

(i) Source #2: (R. Simon): The word 'Toch' (the midst) is used here (Vayikra 22:32, "I will be sanctified in the midst of the children of Israel") and the word 'Toch' is used there (Bereishis 42:5, "and the children of Israel came to buy amidst those who came"). Just as there were ten sons of Yaakov who came, as Yosef was already in Egypt and Binyamin did not come, so too "I will be sanctified in the midst" requires ten.

א"ל רבי יסא בי רבי בון אם מתוך את יליף לה סגין אינון.

(j) Rebuttal (R. Yosa bei R. Bun): If you are learning from "amidst those who came", there were many people that came?

אלא נאמר כאן בני ישראל ונאמר להלן בני ישראל ויבואו בני ישראל לשבר וגו' מה בני ישראל שנאמר להלן עשרה אף כאן עשרה:

1. Alternative answer: Rather, the words 'Bnei Yisrael' (the children of Israel) are used here (Vayikra 22:32, "I will be sanctified in the midst of the children of Israel") and the words 'Bnei Yisrael' are used there (Bereishis 42:5, "and the children of Israel came to buy amidst those who came"). Just as there were ten sons of Yaakov who came, so too "I will be sanctified..." requires ten.

2) THE BEIS DIN HAGADOL RULING ON DOUBTS (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 8b)

פיסקא ומניין להביא עוד שלשה כו'.

(a) The Mishnah taught: (See above 17-1 (d) 2.) What is the source for the other three judges required?

תני אמר רבן שמעון בן גמליאל בראשונה לא היו חותמין על כתובת נשים כשירות. אלא כהנים לויים וישראלים משיאין לכהונה.

(b) Beraisa (Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel): Originally, only Kohanim, Leviim and Yisraelim who they themselves were permitted to marry women proven to be of good lineage, would sign as witnesses on the marriage documents (Kesuvos) of such women.

א"ר יוסי בראשונה לא היתה מחלוקת [ב]ישראל אלא סנהדרין של שבעים ואחד היתה יושבת בלשכת הגזית.

(c) (R. Yosi): Originally, dispute would never endure amongst the Jews, as the Sanhedrin of 71 sat in the Lishchas HaGazis (The Chamber of Hewn Stone) and resolved all disputes.

ושני בתי דינין של (שלשה) עשרים [ו]שלשה היו יושבין אחד בחיל ואחד בהר הבית.

(d) And there were two Beis Dins of 23 judges that would sit, one in the Chayil and one on the Temple Mount.

ובתי דינין של שלשה ועשרים היו יושבין בכל עיירות ארץ ישראל.

(e) And Beis Dins of 23 would sit in all of the cities of the Land of Israel.

צריך אחד מהן לשאול דבר הלכה היה בא ושואלה בבית דין שבעירו אם שמעו אמרו לו ואי לא היה הוא ומופלא שלהן באין ושואלין אותה בבית דין הסמוך לעירו.

(f) If a person needed to ask a question of Jewish Law, he would ask the Beis Din of 23 judges in his city. If they had heard the answer from their Rabbis, they would tell him the ruling; if not, the questioner and the greatest judge of that Beis Din would go and ask in the next closest Beis Din.

אם שמעו אמרו לו ואי לא היה הוא ומופלא שלהן באין ושואלין אותה בבית דין שבהר הבית.

(g) If that Beis Din had heard the answer, they would tell him; if not, the questioner and the greatest judge of that Beis Din would go and ask the Beis Din on the Temple Mount.

אם שמעו אמרו להן ואי לא היה הוא ומופלא שלהן באין ושואלין אותה בבית דין שבחיל.

(h) If that Beis Din had heard the answer, they would tell him; if not, the questioner and the greatest judge of that Beis Din would go and ask the Beis Din in the Chayil (at the entrance of the courtyard).

אם שמעו אמרו להן ואם לאו היו אילו ואילו מתכנסין לבית דין הגדול שבלשכת הגזית שמשם תורה יוצאה ורווחת לכל ישראל שנאמר מן המקום ההוא אשר יבחר ה' וגו'.

(i) If that Beis Din had heard the answer, they would tell him; if not, the questioner and the Beis Din of the Chayil would go and ask the Beis Din HaGadol in the Lishchas HaGazis, from which Torah came forth to all of Yisrael, as the pasuk states (Devarim 17:10), "from the place that Hash-m chose..."

סנהדרין שבלשכת הגזית אע"פ שהיתה של שבעים ואחד לא היו פחותין מעשרים ושלשה.

(j) The Sanhedrin in the Lishchas HaGazis - even though there were (potentially as many as) 71 judges, there could never be a hearing with less than 23 of them.

צריך אחד מהן לצאת היה מסתכל אם יש שם עשרים ושלשה היה יוצא ואם לאו לא היה יוצא. והיו יושבין מתמיד של שחר עד תמיד של בין הערבים.

(k) If one of the judges needed to leave, he would first need to check that there were at least 23 without him. They would sit in court from the early morning, from the time that the Kohanim sacrificed the first daily Tamid offering until the time of the second Tamid offering in the late afternoon.

ובשבתות ובימים טובים היו יושבין בבית המדרש שבהר הבית.

(l) On Shabbos and Yom Tov, they would sit in the Study Hall on the Temple Mount (so that it would not look as if they were judging monetary and capital cases).

נשאלה הלכה אם שמעו אמרו להן ואי לא עומדין על המניין רבו המזכין זיכו רבו מחייבין חייבו רבו המטהרין טיהרו רבו המטמין טמאו שמשם תורה יוצאה ורווחת לכל ישראל.

(m) If they were asked a question, if they had heard an answer, they say it; otherwise they counted up the judges - if the majority found him to be exempt, he is exempt; liable to pay, he is liable to pay. If the majority found him guilty (of a capital offense), he is guilty; if they found him innocent, he is innocent. If the majority found him to be pure, he is pure; impure, he is impure. It is through this that the Torah is made known amongst all of Yisrael.

משרבו תלמידי שמאי והלל שלא שמשו רביהן כצורכן רבו מחלוקות בישראל ונעשו שתי תורות.

(n) When the number of students of Shammai and Hillel who had not sufficiently served their teachers and fully understood the meaning behind the laws, dispute increased amongst Yisrael and the two groups became as two Torahs.

ומשם שולחין בכל עיירות שבארץ ישראל וכל מי שהיו מוצאין אותו חכם עניו שפוי עין טובה נפש שפלה רוח נמוכה לב טוב יצר טוב חלק טוב היו מושיבין אותו בבית דין שבהר הבית ואחר כך בבית דין שבחיל ואחר כך בבית דין הגדול שבלשכת הגזית.

(o) From there (the Great Sanhedrin) would send messages throughout the Land of Israel and whoever that was found to be wise, not searching for honor, calm, content, non-materialistic, humble, well balanced, of good inclination and successful, they would seat him in the Beis Din that was on the Temple Mount and then in the Beis Din in the Chayil and then in the Beis Din HaGadol in the Lishchas HaGazis.

3) THE ARRANGEMENT OF THE SANHEDRIN (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 8b)

סנהדרין היתה כחצי גורן עגולה והנשיא היה יושב באמצע כדי שיהו רואין אותו ושמעין קולו.

(a) The Sanhedrin was seated in a half circle and the Nasi sat in the middle, so that they could all see and hear him.

א"ר לעזר בי רבי צדוק בשהיה רבן גמליאל יושב ביבנה היה אבא ואחיו יושבין מימינו וזקנים משמאלו [מפני מה אחד יושב מימינו של זקן] מפני כבוד הזקן.

(b) (R. Elazar bei R. Tzadok): When Rabban Gamliel sat (as Nasi) in Yavneh, my father (R. Tzadok - the Av Beis Din) and my uncle sat to his right and the Elders to his left. Why did the Av Beis Din sit to the right of the Nasi? Out of respect for the Nasi.

כמה הן שופטי ישראל שבע ריבוא ושמונת אלפים ושש מאות. שרי אלפים שש מאות. שרי מאות ששה אלפים. ושרי חמשים שנים עשר אלף. שרי עשרות ששים אלף. נמצאו שופטי ישראל שבעה ריבוא ושמונת אלפים ושש מאות.

(c) How many judges were appointed (by Moshe Rabbeinu)? 78,600. There were 600 leaders of thousands, 6000 leaders of hundreds, 12,000 leaders of fifties and 60,000 leaders of tens.

מה טעמא (דרבי נחמיה)[דרבנן]

(d) Question: What is the Rabbanan's reasoning (in the Mishnah 17-1(f)) that a city must have 120 people to have a small Sanhedrin)?

והוא שיהא שם בית דין של עשרים ושלשה [ושלש שורות של עשרים ושלשה הרי תשעין ותרתי ועשרה בטלנין של בית הכנסת הרי מאה ותרי ושני סופרים ושני חזנים] והנידונים והעדים וזוממיהן וזוממי זוממיהן (וחזן וסופריהן ושמש)[ושני גבאים ושלישי לחלק הצדקה ורופא אומן לבלר ומלמד(י) תינוקות].

(e) Answer: 23 of them are the judges, the 3 rows of 23, that makes 92, and the 10 people (hired by the community to be present in the synagogue to guarantee the quorum needed for the services), which makes 102. There are also two court scribes, two beadles, two litigants, two witnesses, two who come to disqualify them and two who come to disqualify them, two charity collectors and a third to be able to give out the charity (which requires three), a bloodletter, a scribe and a schoolteacher. This totals 120 people.

[רבי אומר מאתיים ושבעים ושבעה] מה טעמא (דרבנן)[רבי]

(f) Question: (In the Mishnah) Rebbi says that 277 people are required to inhabit the city. What is Rebbe's reasoning?

והוא שיהא שם שנים עשר סנהדריות של שנים עשר שבטים:

(g) Answer: Equivalent to the number of judges in the smaller Sanhedrin (23) for each of the 12 tribes (23X12=276) and an additional person who heads them, making 277.

4) MOSHE RABBEINU'S ENACTMENTS (Yerushalmi Halachah 4 Daf 8b)

ומשה על גביהן.

(a) The Mishnah taught (17 -1(b)) that Moshe was head over the 70 Elders, making a total of 71, which is the number of judges in the Great Sanhedrin.

דבר תקנה עשה משה בשעה שאמר לו הקב"ה פקוד כל בכור זכר בבני ישראל

(b) Moshe made an enactment (to avoid dispute) - when Hash-m told him (Bamidbar 3:40), "Count every firstborn male of the children of Israel" (and the total, according to pasuk 43, was 22,273. On the other hand, according to verse 39, there were 22,000 Levi'im. Hash-m then told Moshe (pesukim 43-45), "Take the Leviim instead of all the firstborns among the children of Israel...and the Levites shall be Mine, I am Hash-m. As for the two hundred and seventy three of the children of Israel who required redemption, who are in excess of the Leviim, you shall take five shekels per head".)

אמר אי זה מקבל עליו ליתן חמשה שקלים לגולגולת.

1. Moshe then said, "Who would volunteer to be one of the 277 to give five shekels for their redemption?"

מה עשה נטל שנים ועשרים אלף פיטקין וכתב עליהן בן לוי. ורע"ג כתב עליהן חמשת שקלים והטילן לקלפי אמר להו בואו וטלו פיטקיכם.

2. So he took 22,000 cards and wrote on them, "Levite"; and on 273 of them he wrote, "five shekels" and put them all in a box. He then told all of the Leviim to come and draw one of the cards.

כל מי שעלה בידו בן לוי היה אומר לו כבר פדאך בן לוי וכל מי שהיה עולה בידו חמשת שקלים היה אומר לו מה אעשה לך מן השמים הוא.

3. Whoever drew out 'Levite', Moshe told him that he had already been redeemed. Whoever drew out 'five shekels', Moshe said to him, "What can I do - it is from Heaven!"

ר' יהודה ור' נחמיה מתיב תנייא לחברייא אילו כתבתני לוי סילקת.

(c) R. Yehuda and R. Nechemia (were discussing the matter). One asked the other (and it is clear from the Midrash, that it was R. Nechemiah who asked R. Yehuda) - those 273 could still claim - had he written 'Levite' on all of them, we would all have been exempt from redemption?!

אלא כך עשה נטל שנים ועשרים אלף פיטקין וכתב לוי ורע"ג וכתב עליהן לוי ורע"ג כתב עליהן חמשת שקלים והטילן לקלפי אמר להן בואו וטלו פיטקיכם.

1. Rather, Moshe took 22,000 cards and wrote on them 'Levite' and he took 273 and wrote on them 'Levite' and 273 and wrote on them 'five shekels' and put them all in the box. He then told them to draw one for themselves.

כל מי שעלה בידו לוי אמר לו כבר פדאך בן לוי וכל מי שעלה בידו חמשת שקלים היה אומר לו מה אעשה ומן השמים הוא.

2. Whoever drew out 'Levite', Moshe told him that he had already been redeemed. Whoever drew out 'five shekels', Moshe said to him, "What can I do - it is from Heaven!"

מתיב תניינא לחברייא הגע עצמך שעלו כולם לוי

(d) Rebuttal (R. Yehuda to R. Nechemiah): If they would have all drawn 'Levite', none of the 273 would have redeemed themselves?!

א"ל מעשה נס היה (ומסורגן עלו)

(e) Response (R. Nechemiah): There was a miracle that none of them drew a 'Levite'.

א"ר שמואל על דעתיה דתנייה אהורייא מעשה ניסין על דעתיה דתנייא קדמייא אינו מעשה ניסין.

(f) Question (R. Shmuel): Only according to R. Nechemiah was it a miracle but not according to R. Yehuda?

א"ל כולהון מעשה ניסין היו ומסורגין עלו.

(g) Answer: Both agree that it was a miracle, but the 273 drew their cards that said 'five shekels' while there were still cards in the box that said 'Levite' (thereby avoiding the complaints of those Leviim).

(אנטונינות)[אנגטוס] הגמון שאל את רבן יוחנן בן זכאי בכלל חסירין ובפרט יתירין.

(h) Question (Roman Officer Angatus to R. Yochanan ben Zakkai): In the general calculation about the Leviim, it says (Bamidbar 3:39), "All of the calculation of the Leviim....22,000." But if you add up the numbers of each family separately, there were more (Gershon - 7500, Kehas - 8600, Merari - 6200 makes a total of 22,300)?!

אותן שלש מאות יתירין בכורי כהונה היו ואין קודש מוציא קודש.

(i) Answer (R. Yochanan ben Zakkai): Those 300 were themselves firstborn Leviim who were not able to redeem other firstborns.

כיוצא בו ויאמר ה' אל משה אספה לי שבעים איש מזקני ישראל. אמר משה אם אטול ששה מכל שבט הרי שבעים ושנים. עשרה מששה ושנים מחמש'. אי זה שבט מקבל עליו להיות פגום.

(j) Similarly, the pasuk states (Bamidbar 11:16), "Hash-m said to Moshe, 'Gather for me 70 men from the elders of Yisrael'. Moshe said, 'If I take six elders from each tribe, there will be 72, so I must take 10 from 6 tribes and 2 from 5 tribes, in order to total 70. Which of the tribes will only contribute two elders?'

מה עשה נטל שבעים פיטקין וכתב עליהן זקן ושנים חלק והטילן לקלפי

1. What did he do? He took 70 cards and wrote on them 'elder' and he left two blank and put them all in the box.

אמר להן בואו וטלו פיטקיכם כל שעלה בידו זקן היה אומר לו מינוך מן השמים וכל מי שעלה בידו חלק היה אומר לו ומה אעשה ומן השמים הוא.

2. He told them, "Come and take your cards". He would tell whoever drew out an 'elder', "You were appointed from Heaven" and he told whoever drew out a blank, "What can I do - it is from Heaven".

ר' יודה ורבי נחמיה מתיב תנייא לחברייא אילו כתבתני זקן סילקת.

(k) R. Yehuda and R. Nechemia (were discussing the matter). One asked the other (and it is clear from the Midrash Tanchuma, that it was R. Nechemiah who asked R. Yehuda) - One of those that receive blanks could claim that had there been 72 cards, he would have been appointed as an elder!

אלא כך עשה נטל שבעים ושנים פיטקין וכתב עליהן זקן ושנים חלקין והטילן לקלפי אמר להן בואו וטלו פיטקיכם

1. Rather, Moshe did the following - he took 72 cards and wrote on each of them 'elder' and an additional two be left blank. He then invited them to draw a card.

מי שעלה בידו זקן אמר לו כבר מינוך מן השמים ומי שעלה בידו חלק היה אומר לו ומה אעשה ומן השמים הוא.

2. Whoever drew out 'elder', Moshe told him, "You have already been appointed by Heaven"; and he told whoever drew out a blank, "What can I do - it is from Heaven".

מתיב תנייא לחברייא הגע עצמך שעלו כולם זקן.

(l) Rebuttal (R. Yehuda to R. Nechemiah): If they would all have drawn 'elder', would they all have become elders? (The Torah said there would be 70!)

א"ל מעשה ניסין היה ומסורגין עלו.

(m) Response (R. Nechemiah): There was a miracle that two of them drew blanks.

א"ר שמואל קשיתיה קומי רבי אבהו על דעתיה דתנייא אחרייא מעשה ניסים על דעתיה דתנייא קדמייא אינו מעשה ניסים.

(n) (Shmuel): I asked R. Abahu - Only according to R. Nechemiah was it a miracle but not according to R. Yehuda?

א"ל מעשה ניסין היו ומסורגין עלו.

(o) Answer: Both agree that it was a miracle, that even when the 'elder' cards were still in the box, the last two took blanks.

שאל (אנטינונס)[אנגטוס] הגמון לרבן יוחנן בן זכאי משה רבכם או גנב היה או לא היה בקי בחשבון. דכתיב בקע לגולגולת אין תעביד קינטרא מאה ליטרא וחד מן אישתא גנב.

(p) Question #2 (Roman Officer Angatus to R. Yochanan ben Zakkai): Your teacher Moshe was either a thief or did not know how to calculate, as the pasuk states (Shemos 38:26), "a beka per head" (must be given). The number of people who gave the half shekel was 603,550. The previous pasuk also states that the total amount of money raised from the half shekels was 'one hundred kikar (talents) and one thousand seven hundred and seventy five shekels'. If you calculate that a kikar at that time was equal to 100 litras (although there is an alternative, as the Gemara will soon present), it appears that Moshe took 1/6th of the money for himself (chas v'shalom)! (A litra is 25 shekels, so for every kikar, there were 100 litra =2500 shekels. Therefore, the 100 kikars=250,000 shekels with an additional 1775 shekels, as per the pasuk, totalled 251,775 shekels. However, if 603,550 people give half a shekel, there should total 301,775 shekels. Therefore, there is a discrepancy of 50,000 shekels that does not appear in the total collected.)

ואין תעבדיניה שיתין ליטרין פלגא גנב.

1. Alternatively, if the kikar at that time was equal to 60 litras, he took a half of the money. (As stated above, there were 25 shekels in each litra, so 60 litras was 1500 shekels. Therefore, 100 kikars was 150,000 shekels, making a total of 151,775 shekels, instead of the expected total of 301,775 shekels.)

א"ל משה רבן גיזבר נאמן ובקי בחשבון היה.

(q) Answer (R. Yochanan ben Zakkai to Angatus): Moshe Rabbeinu was a faithful treasurer and knew how to calculate. (The litra of Hekdesh is actually 50 shekels rather than 25 shekels, and therefore, a kikar of 60 litras contains 3000 shekels and one hundred kikars is 300,000 shekels. Added to this was 1775 shekels (with which they made the boards, as above). Therefore, the total mentioned in the pasuk is the same as expected amount given by 603,550 people, namely, 301,775 shekels.

א"ל והכתיב ונחושת התנופה (עשרים)[שבעים] ככר והיידא לון סלקין תשעין ושית ליטרין ואיתעביד ליה פרוטרוט.

1. Proof (R. Yochanan ben Zakkai): The pasuk (29) states, "The copper of the waving was seventy kikars (and two thousand four hundred shekels)." If you calculate 2400 shekels in litras (that each contain 25 shekels), there were 96 litras. If a kikar is 60 litras, there was 1 kikar plus another 36 litras, which is 1 kikar plus 900 shekels. If so, why didn't the pasuk state that the copper was 71 kikars and 900 shekels rather than 70 kikars and 2400 shekels? Therefore, it cannot be that there are 1500 shekels in a kikar; rather, there were 60 double litras in a kikar, so that a kikar was 3000 shekels (as R. Yochanan answered above).

א"ל משום דלא סליק קינטירא ואין תימר דסלק קינטירא פלגא גנב.

(r) Rebuttal (Angatus to R. Yochanan ben Zakkai): It is not because the litra of Hekdesh is 50 shekels. Really, it's 25 shekels, but the kikar was 100 litras, not 60 litras, meaning that there were 2500 shekels in a kikar. Therefore, there is no proof to your explanation, and Moshe was a thief! And you can even say that there were 60 litras in the kikar and 25 shekels in each litra, and a whole kikar is 2400 shekels. The reason that it was written as 70 kikars and 2400 rather than 71 was because it was better to list the number of kikars as a round number of 70, and then simply add the 71st in the form of shekels.

א"ל והכתיב ואת האלף ושבע המאות וחמשה ושבעים והייד' לון סלקין שבעים וחד ליטרין ואת עביד ליה פרוטרוט.

(s) (R. Yochanan to Angatus): But the pasuk (28) states, "and from the 1775 (he made hooks for the pillars)" - the pasuk only mentions shekels but not kikars. But if you transfer the 1775 shekels into litra (with 25 shekels per litra), there were 71 litra. Therefore, there was a kikar (of 60 litra) plus another 11 litra. If so, why didn't the pasuk describe them as a kikar and 275 shekels? Rather, it must be that the kikar of Hekdesh was double that of a regular kikar, so 1775 shekels was not a whole kikar.

א"ל משום דלא סליק קינטרא פלגא גנב [אין תימר דסלק קינטרא פלגא גנב]

(t) (Angatus to R. Yochanan): It is not true that the Hekdesh kikar was double; rather, a kikar contained 100 regular litra, so that a kikar was 2500 shekels, so 1775 shekels was not a whole kikar and that is why it was not added to the 70 kikars to make 71. So in fact, Moshe did steal one sixth! Or you could say that a kikar contained 60 regular litra and 1775 shekels was a whole kikar, but the pasuk didn't say 'one kikar' because it was too small a number to mention; but actually Moshe stole a half!

אמר ליה והכתיב והשקל עשרים גרה עשרים שקלים. חמשה ועשרים שקלים עשרה וחמשה שקל המנה יהיה לכם.

(u) (R. Yochanan ben Zakkai to Angatus): The pasuk states about the eight measures that were used in the Beis HaMikdash (Yechezkel 45:12), "The shekel will be 20 gerah. Twenty shekels and twenty five shekels and fifteen shekels will be your maneh." (A maneh is a litra, and it is clear from this pasuk that it consisted of 20+25+15=60 shekels. However, this pasuk refers to times of Yechezkel, when Chazal added a sixth to the weight of a maneh, but before that, there were 50 shekels in a maneh/litra.

ככרו של הקדוש ברוך הוא כפול היה.

1. This proves that the kikar of Hekdesh is double the size of a regular kikar (as a regular kikar has in it 1500 shekels; a Hekdesh kikar has 3000 shekels); if so, the amount of shekels used for the Mishkan was the same as was collected!

אמר ליה גיזבר נאמן ובקי בחשבון היה:

(v) (Angatus to R. Yochanan ben Zakkai): (I admit that) Moshe was a faithful treasurer and knew how to calculate.

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