1)

(a)What does the Beraisa learn from the extra 'Vav' in the Pasuk in Kedoshim (in connection with a Shifchah Charufah) "*ve*'Ish ki Yishkav es Ishah ... "?

(b)How does Abaye query Rabah (who maintains that a Katan cannot father children) from here?

(c)How do we answer Abaye's Kashya?

(d)How do we compare this to crops?

1)

(a)The Beraisa learns from the extra 'Vav' in the Pasuk (in connection with a Shifchah Charufah) "*ve*'Ish ki Yishkav es Ishah ... " that - the Bi'ah of a boy of nine is considered a Bi'ah (to render the Shifchah Charufah Chayav Malkos).

(b)Abaye queries Rabah (who maintains that a Katan cannot father children) from here - inasmuch as it implies that a nine-year old boy can.

(c)We answer however - that even though his Bi'ah is considered a Bi'ah, his seed cannot fertilize.

(d)And we compare this to crops - that have not yet grown a third, that will continue to grow, even though they will not fertilize if one replants them.

2)

(a)What does Tana de'bei Chizkiyah, who supports Rabah, learn from the Pasuk in Mishpatim "ve'Chi Yazid Ish" (even though this has nothing to do with the context [of murder])?

(b)How does the Tana learn it from there? What should the Torah otherwise have written?

(c)What do we learn from the Pasuk in Toldos "va'Yazed Ya'akov Nazid"?

2)

(a)Tana de'bei Chizkiyah, who supports Rabah, learns from the Pasuk "ve'Chi Yazid Ish" - that a man is able to sow and fertilize, but not boy (of over nine, who can sow but not fertilize (even though that has nothing to do with the context of murder).

(b)The Tana learns it from there - from the Lashon "ve'Chi Yazid" (which has connotations of 'cooking/boiling'), when the Torah could otherwise have written "ve'Chi Yarshi'a".

(c)Similarly, we learn from the Pasuk "va'Yazed Ya'akov Nazid" - that "ve'Chi Yazid" means cooking (and in the current sense, fertilizing, which requires the seed to become hot)

3)

(a)How do we try to prove that a Katan can have children (like Rav Chisda) from Tana de'bei Rebbi Yishmael, who Darshens (by ben Sorer u'Moreh) "ben", 've'Lo Av'?

(b)Why can Tana de'bei Rebbi Yishmael not be referring to a case where the woman became pregnant after the boy turned bar-Mitzvah, and gave birth nine (or seven) months later? What did Rebbi K'ruspedai say that negates such a possibility?

(c)How did Rav Dimi, quoting the b'nei Ma'arva, interpret 've'Lo Av' of Tana de'bei Rebbi Yishmael, to answer the Kashya on Rabah?

(d)How will Rav Chisda (who holds that a Katan can father children) explain "ben", 've'Lo Av' (See Maharsha on Rashi)?

3)

(a)We try to prove that a Katan can have children (like Rav Chisda) from Tana de'bei Rebbi Yishmael, who Darshens (by ben Sorer u'Moreh) "ben", 've'Lo Av' - which, we think means that the woman became pregnant whilst the 'ben' was a Katan, and gave birth within three months of his having become a Gadol.

(b)Tana de'bei Rebbi Yishmael cannot be referring to a case where the woman became pregnant after the boy turned bar-Mitzvah, and gave birth nine months later, due to a statement of Rebbi K'ruspeda'i, who said that - a ben Sorer u'Moreh has only the first three months after he becomes a Gadol in which to be declared a ben Sorer u'Moreh.

(c)To answer the Kashya on Rabah, Rav Dimi, quoting the b'nei Ma'arva, interprets 've'Lo Av' of Tana de'bei Rebbi Yishmael, to mean - 've'Lo ha'Ra'uy Lih'yos Av', meaning not one who could theoretically call himself a father (should he be married to a woman who becomes pregnant [because the woman's pregnancy is discernible after three months]).

(d)Rav Chisda (who holds that a Katan can father children) will explain "ben", 've'Lo Av' (according to the explanation that we rejected) to mean that - the woman was pregnant already six months before the Kaytan became a Gadol.

4)

(a)How do we reconcile Rebbi K'ruspedai with our Mishnah, which gives the maximum time-limit for a ben Sorer u'Moreh as when the pubic hair surrounds the Gid?

(b)What did Rebbi Shabsi say about a woman who is destined to have a seven-month pregnancy?

(c)What are the Halachic ramifications of this statement?

(d)How does Rebbi Ya'akov from N'har Pakud quoting to Ravina in the name of Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua try to support Rebbi Shabsi's statement from Rebbi K'ruspedai?

4)

(a)We reconcile Rebbi K'ruspedai with our Mishnah, which gives the maximum time-limit for a ben Sorer u'Moreh as when the pubic hair surrounds the Gid - by accepting both time limits, whichever arrives first (usually [but not exclusively] the three-month limit terminates first).

(b)Rebbi Shabsi said that a seven-month pregnancy - is not discernible after two and a third months (a third of the time into the pregnancy), only after three (just like a pregnancy of nine-month).

(c)Consequently - if a woman married (illegally) within three months of her first husband's death (or of her divorce) and became pregnant within three months of her second marriage, we know that her first husband is definitely the child's father.

(d)Rebbi Ya'akov from N'har Pakud quoting to Ravina, tries to support Rebbi Shabsi's statement from Rebbi K'ruspedai, in the name of Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua - by pointing out that, if the pregnancy would be discernible by two and a third months, the time-limit ought to be (not three months after the boy becomes a Gadol) but two and a third.

5)

(a)How did Ravina refute this proof? Why might we not absolve a ben Sorer u'Moreh already from two and a third months, even assuming that the pregnancy of a woman who is destined to give birth after seven months, will show after two and a third?

(b)What objections does Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua, based on the Pasuk in Masei "ve'Shaftu ha'Eidah, ve'Hitzilu ha'Eidah", raise to Ravina's refutation?

(c)How does Ravina answer Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua's Kashya from the Mishnah in 'Hayu Bodkin' 'Echad Omer be'Sheini ba'Chodesh, ve'Echad Omer 'bi'Sheloshah ba'Chodesh, Eidusan Kayemes'? What might the Tana otherwise have ruled?

(d)How does Rebbi Yirmiyah from Difti support Ravina from the Mishnah in Nidah (that we quoted in the previous Perek) 'bas Shalosh Shanim ... ve'Chayavin alav Mishum Eishes Ish'? How does this prove that we follow the 'Rov' even to put someone to death?

5)

(a)Ravina refutes this proof however - because, he says, we go after the majority of women who give birth at nine months, and whose pregnancy shows at three months, based on the principle of ('Holchin Achar ha'Rov'). So most 'men' become fit to be fathers three months after their Bar-Mitzvah.

(b)Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua, based on the Pasuk "ve'Shaftu ha'Eidah, ve'Hitzilu ha'Eidah", objects to Ravina's refutation however - on the grounds that we cannot go after the majority to sentence a ben Sorer u'Moreh to death on the basis of a 'Rov', seeing as it is a Mitzvah to save the defendant from the death-penalty.

(c)Ravina answers Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Yehoshua's Kashya from the Mishnah in 'Hayu Bodkin' 'Echad Omer be'Sheini ba'Chodesh, ve'Echad Omer 'bi'Sheloshah ba'Chodesh, Eidusan Kayemes' - where we accept the testimony of the witnesses (to sentence the accused to death) on the basis of a 'Rov'. Otherwise, we ought to have perceived the testimony of the two witnesses as a discrepancy and thrown it out of court.

(d)Rebbi Yirmiyah from Difti supports Ravina from the Mishnah in Nidah (that we quoted in the previous Perek) 'bas Shalosh Shanim ... ve'Chayavin alav Mishum Eishes Ish' - where we sentence an adulterer to death on the assumption that like, most women, the girl in question is not an Aylonis (because if she was, she would not be an Eishes Ish, and the adulterer would not be Chayav Misah).

6)

(a)On what grounds do we reject the suggestion that 'Chayav' refers to ...

1. ... a Korban (if they transgressed be'Shogeg)?

2. ... where her father committed incest with her (which is not subject to the validity of the girl's Kidushin)?

(b)How do we finally refute Rebbi Yirmiyah from Difti's support for Ravina from this Mishnah? How might the Tana be speaking that will not invalidate the Kidushin, even if the girl does turn out to be an Aylonis?

6)

(a)We reject the suggestion that 'Chayav' refers to ...

1. ... a Korban (if they transgressed be'Shogeg) on the grounds that - the Tana specifically states 'Mumsin al-Yadah'.

2. ... where her father committed incest with her (which is not subject to the validity of Kidushin) on the grounds that - the Tana specifically states 'Im Ba alehah Echad mi'Kol ha'Arayos'.

(b)We finally refute Rebbi Yirmiyah from Difti's support for Ravina from this Mishnah - by establishing the Mishnah where the father explicitly accepted the Kidushin even in the event that she turns out to be an Aylonis.

69b----------------------------------------69b

7)

(a)The Beraisa cites a Machlokes Tana'im in the case of 'ha'Mesuleles bi'Venah Katan ve'He'erah bah'. 'Ha'ara'ah is the first stage of Bi'ah (though its exact definition is subject to a Machlokes). What is the meaning of 'ha'Mesuleles bi'Venah Katan'?

(b)According to Beis Shamai in the Beraisa, this disqualifies her from the Kehunah. On what grounds is she Pasul? Why is she not then Chayav Misah?

(c)Beis Hillel declares her Kasher. According to Rav Chisda (or Ze'iri), over what age son are Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel arguing? From which age will Beis Hillel agree with Beis Shamai?

(d)What is the basis of their Machlokes? What is Beis Shamai's source for considering the Bi'ah of an eight-year old boy a Bi'ah (as we shall now see)?

7)

(a)The Beraisa cites a Machlokes Tana'im in the case of 'ha'Mesuleles bi'Venah Katan ve'He'erah bah'. 'Ha'ara'ah is the first stage of Bi'ah (though its exact definition is subject to a Machlokes). 'ha'Mesuleles bi'Venah Katan' means that - the woman was playing indecently with her young son.

(b)According to Beis Shamai in the Beraisa, this disqualifies her from the Kehunah - because she is a Zonah. She is not Chayav Misah - because the Tana is speaking where the witnesses failed to warn her.

(c)Beis Hillel declares her Kasher. According to Rav Chisda (or Ze'iri), Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel are arguing over - a boy between the ages of eight and nine, but as far as a boy of nine is concerned, Beis Hillel will agree with Beis Shamai, that his Bi'ah is considered a Bi'ah (as we learned on the previous Amud).

(d)The basis of their Machlokes is - whether we learn from the earlier generations (Beis Shamai), where the Bi'ah of a boy of eight was a Bi'ah or whether we say that the nature of people changed (Beis Hillel).

8)

(a)Bas-Sheva was the daughter of Eli'am. Who was Eli'am's father?

(b)The Pasuk in Tehilim assures us that men of bloodshed and trickery will not live half their life-span. What is considered a regular life-span?

(c)At what age did ...

1. ... Do'eg ha'Adomi die?

2. ... Achitofel die?

(d)How many years after Shlomoh's birth did Avshalom ...

1. ... kill (his half-brother, Amnon)?

2. ... return to Yerushalayim from his exile?

(e)How many years did he remains in Yerushalayim without seeing father?

8)

(a)Bas-Sheva was the daughter of Eli'am, whose father was - Achitofel.

(b)The Pasuk in Tehilim assures us that men of bloodshed and trickery will not live half their life-span - which is seventy years.

(c)That is why ...

1. ... Do'eg ha'Adomi died at - thirty-four, and ...

2. ... Achitofel, at - thirty-three.

(d)Avshalom ...

1. ... killed his half-brother, Amnon - two years after Shlomoh was born.

2. ... returned to Yerushalayim from his exile - three years after that.

(e)He remained in Yerushalayim without seeing his father - for two years.

9)

(a)That is when Avshalom's rebellion began. What happened to Achitofel at that point?

(b)How do we initially prove from here that men could have children at the age of eight in those days?

(c)How do we refute this proof? How is it possible for Achitofel and Eli'am to have fathered their children at nine?

(d)And how do we prove that in any event, bas-Sheva must have given birth before the age of eight?

9)

(a)That is when Avshalom's rebellion began. And that was when - Achitofel committed suicide because his advice was not accepted.

(b)We initially prove from here that they could have children at the age of eight in those days - because if we deduct the seven years of Shlomoh from the thirty-three of Achitofel (his great-grandfather), that leaves twenty-six years for the three births (Eli'am, bas-Sheva and Shlomoh). And if we allow two years for the combined pregnancies (seven months plus one month for the respective mothers month-long period of Tum'ah and Taharah), that will mean that Achitofel, Eli'am and bas-Sheva were each eight years old when their babies were born.

(c)We refute this proof however - on the grounds that on the assumption that girls were able to have children at an earlier age than boys, bas-Sheva may have given birth to Shlomoh when she was six, in which case Achitofel and Eli'am were both nine at the birth of birth of their respective children.

(d)We prove that in any event, bas-Sheva must have given birth before the age of eight because even if all three gave birth at eight, the Pasuk already recorded earlier that bas-Sheva had a child who died within a few days of birth.

10)

(a)Avram and Nachor married the daughters of their brother Haran, Yiskah and Milkah respectively. Who was Yiskah?

(b)She may have been called by that name, says Rebbi Yitzchak, because 'she saw with the Divine Spirit'. What did Hash-m once tell Avraham on account of that?

(c)What alternative explanation does Rebbi Yitzchak give to explain the name 'Yiskah'?

(d)What was the age gap between ...

1. ... Avraham and Sarah?

2. ... Avraham and Haran (assuming that the three brothers were born in the order that the Torah records them 'Avraham, Nachor and Haran')? What does this prove?

10)

(a)Avram and Nachor married the daughters of their brother Haran, Yiskah - better known as Sarah, and Milkah respectively.

(b)She may have been called by that name, says Rebbi Yitzchak, because 'she saw with the Divine Spirit' - which explains why Hash-m once told Avraham to listen to whatever she said.

(c)Alternatively, says Rebbi Yitzchak, she was called 'Yiskah' - because everyone would gaze at her beauty.

(d)The age gap between ...

1. ... Avraham and Sarah was - ten years (as the Torah specifically writes in Vayeira).

2. ... Avraham and Haran (assuming that the three brothers were born in the order that the Torah records them 'Avraham, Nachor and Haran') was - two years (one year between each brother). In that case, Haran must have been eight when Sarah was born.

11)

(a)How do we refute the proof from there that a man could father a child at the age of eight in biblical times? If Avraham was not the oldest, why does it mention him first?

(b)And we prove the concept of the Pasuk going after wisdom from the sons of No'ach. What is the problem with the Pasuk in No'ach "Shem ben Me'as Shanah va'Yoled es Arpachshad Shenasayim Achar ha'Mabul"?

(c)What does this prove?

(d)What did Rav Z'vid from Neherda'a tell Rav Kahana, when he repeated this to him? From where did *he* prove that Shem was not the oldest son of No'ach?

11)

(a)We refute the proof from there that a man could father a child at the age of eight in biblical times - by ascribing the order of the three brothers (not according to age), but according to wisdom (see Tosfos DH 'Ela'), in which case Avraham may have been younger than Haran (so Haran could have been more than eight when Sarah was born).

(b)And we prove the concept of the Pasuk going after wisdom, from the sons of No'ach. The problem with the Pasuk "Shem ben Me'as Shanah va'Yoled es Arpachshad Shenasayim Achar ha'Mabul" is that - assuming that Noach's sons were born in the order that they are recorded in the Torah (Shem, Cham and Yafes), and based on the Pasuk that No'ach had his first son when he was five hundred (and the flood began when he was six hundred), when Sheim bore Arpachshad, two years after the Flood, he would have been a hundred and two, and not a hundred ...

(c)... a proof - that sometimes, the Torah lists people (not according to their age, but) according to their wisdom.

(d)When Rav Kahana repeated the above to Rav Z'vid from Neherda'a - the latter replied that *he* proved that Shem was not the oldest - from the Pasuk in No'ach "Achi Yefes ha'Gadol".

12)

(a)How old was Kalev at the episode of the spies?

(b)What was his relationship with ...

1. ... Efrat? Who was Efrat better known as?

2. ... Chur?

(c)What was Chur's relationship with Betzalel?

(d)How old was Betzalel when he built the Mishkan (a year before the sending of the spies)?

12)

(a)At the episode with the spies - Kalev was forty.

(b)He was ...

1. ... the husband of Efrat (better known as Miriam).

2. ... Chur's - father.

(c)Chur was Betzalel's grandfather.

(d)When Betzalel built the Mishkan (a year before sending of the spies) - he was thirteen.

13)

(a)How do we ultimately prove from here that men were able to father children at the age of eight in those days?

(b)We learned in our Mishnah "Ben", 've'Lo Bas'. What does Rebbi in a Beraisa comment on this?

13)

(a)We ultimately prove from here that men were able to father children at the age of eight in those days - because, if Betzalel was fourteen (when they sent the Spies), and his great-grandfather Kalev, forty, it means that Kalev was twenty-six when he was born. If we deduct two years for the three pregnancies (Chur, Uri and Betzalel), that means that each of the three men was eight when his son was born.

(b)We learned in our Mishnah "Ben", 've'Lo Bas'. Rebbi Shimon in a Beraisa comments on this that - really it would be most appropriate to have a bas Sorer u'Moreh, because if a girl eats and drinks in the same way as a ben Sorer u'Moreh, she too will stand by the crossroads, plying her wares and luring people to sin. Only the Torah precludes her.

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES ON THIS DAF