Perek ha'Noder min ha'Yerek

1)

(a)The Tana Kama does not consider pumpkin to be a Yerek (vegetable). Some give the reason for this because it is a fruit (which will be explained shortly). What reason do others give?

(b)What does Rebbi Akiva say?

(c)The Tana Kama proves his point from the fact that a Shali'ach sent to purchase vegetables will come back and ask whether he should buy pumpkins, because that is all he could find. How does Rebbi Akiva counter that?

(d)Which kind of Egyptian bean is considered a vegetable, and which is not?

1)

(a)The Tana Kama does not consider pumpkin to be a Yerek (vegetable). Some give the reason for this because it is a fruit (which will be explained shortly). According to others - it is because a Yerek is something that can be eaten raw, whereas pumpkins must be cooked.

(b)Rebbi Akiva - considers a pumpkin a vegetable.

(c)The Rabanan prove their point from the fact that a Shali'ach sent to purchase vegetables will come back and ask whether he should buy pumpkins, because that is all he could find. Rebbi Akiva counters that - by pointing out that the same Shali'ach would not ask whether to buy legumes, (because legumes are not considered vegetables, whereas pumpkins are).

(d)A wet Egyptian bean is considered a vegetable, a dry one is not.

2)

(a)We query Rebbi Akiva, who considers a pumpkin a vegetable, when in reality, it is a fruit. What makes a wet Egyptian bean a vegetable, and a pumpkin, a fruit?

(b)On what grounds do we refute Ula's suggestion that the Mishnah speaks when the Noder said 'Yarkei Kedeirah Alai' (an expression which comes to include)? What does 'Yarkei Kedeirah' really come to include?

(c)Then how do we establish our Mishnah? What did the Noder say that incorporates pumpkin?

(d)According to the second explanation cited above (that the definition of a vegetable is one that is eaten raw), that is the grounds for our querying Rebbi Akiva (who considers a pumpkin a vegetable). On what grounds then, do we reject the suggestion 'b'Omer Yarkei Kedeirah Alai'? What would 'Yarkei Kedeirah' then come to include?

2)

(a)We query Rebbi Akiva, who considers a pumpkin a vegetable, when in reality, it is definitely a fruit. What makes a wet Egyptian bean a vegetable, and a pumpkin, a fruit is - the fact that unlike corn, the bean is not placed in a pile in a granary (until it is dry), whereas a pumpkin is.

(b)We refute Ula's suggestion that the Mishnah speaks when the Noder said 'Yarkei Kedeirah Alai' (an expression which comes to include) - on the grounds that that would seem to include things that one tends to add to the pot for taste, such as leek and onions (but not pumpkins).

(c)We therefore establish our Mishnah - when the Noder said 'Yerek ha'Misbashel bi'Kedeirah Alai'.

(d)According to the second explanation cited above (that the definition of a vegetable is one that is eaten raw), that is the grounds for querying of Rebbi Akiva (who considers a pumpkin a vegetable). In that case, we reject the suggestion 'b'Omer Yarkei Kedeirah Alai' - on the grounds that 'Yarkei Kedeirah' would then come to include vegetables that can be eaten raw or cooked, such as garlic and lettuce (which apparently was sometimes eaten cooked in those days), but not pumpkins, which cannot be eaten raw.

3)

(a)What is the basis of the Machlokes between Rebbi Akiva and the Rabanan in our Mishnah?

(b)Like whom is the Halachah?

(c)Abaye points out however, that even Rebbi Akiva will concede that someone who makes a Neder not to eat vegetables, and then eats pumpkins, will not receive Malkus. Why not?

3)

(a)The basis of the Machlokes between Rebbi Akiva and the Rabanan in our Mishnah is - whether something that a Shali'ach would have to consult the Meshale'ach before purchasing is considered to belong to the species that he was sent to buy (R. Akiva), or not (the Rabanan).

(b)The Halachah - is like Rebbi Akiva.

(c)Abaye points out however, that even Rebbi Akiva will concede that someone who makes a Neder not to eat vegetables, and then eats pumpkins, will not receive Malkus - because pumpkins are not really vegetables, as we explained, and are only included from the extra Lashon that the Noder used (See also Rosh DH 'Modeh Rebbi Akiva').

4)

(a)The Mishnah in Me'ilah states 'ha'Shali'ach she'Asah Shelichuso, Ba'al ha'Bayis Ma'al; Lo Asah Shelichuso, Shali'ach Ma'al'. Bearing in mind the principle 'Ein Shali'ach li'Devar Aveirah', why, in the Reisha, is the owner Mo'el, seeing as it the Shali'ach who sinned?

(b)In that case, why is the Shali'ach Mo'el in the Seifa?

4)

(a)The Mishnah in Me'ilah states 'ha'Shali'ach she'Asah Shelichuso, Ba'al ha'Bayis Ma'al; Lo Asah Shelichuso, Shali'ach Ma'al'. In spite of the fact that in the Reisha, it is the Shali'ach who sinned (and we have a principle 'Ein Shali'ach li'Devar Aveirah'), it is the owner who is Mo'el - because, based on the 'Gezeirah-Shavah' "Chet" "Chet" from Terumah, that by Me'ilah, like by Terumah, 'Yesh Shali'ach li'Devar Aveirah'.

(b)The reason that the Shali'ach is Mo'el in the Seifa is - because, since the Shali'ach changed from the owner's instructions, he acted independently of the owner.

5)

(a)The Mishnah there continues 'Keitzad: Amar Lo, Ten Basar l'Orchim, v'Nasan Lahem Kaved ... ha'Shali'ach Ma'al'. What prompts Rav Chisda to say that the author of the Seifa cannot be Rebbi Akiva?

(b)Why is this case better than that of 'Dilu'in' in our Mishnah, where Rebbi Akiva agreed that the perpetrator will not receive Malkus (in which case he would not be Mo'el either)?

(c)On what grounds does Abaye disagree with Rav Chisda, to establish the Mishnah in Me'ilah even like Rebbi Akiva?

(d)What did Rava remark when they told him what Abaye had said?

5)

(a)The Mishnah there continues 'Keitzad: Amar Lo Ten Basar l'Orchim, v'Nasan Lahem Kaved ... ha'Shali'ach Ma'al'. Rav Chisda maintains that the author of the Seifa cannot be Rebbi Akiva - because, as we have already learned, he holds that any commodity that the Shali'ach would go back and consult the owner about purchasing, is considered the same species as the one that he was initially sent to buy. So why is it the Shali'ach who is Mo'el, and not the Meshale'ach?

(b)This case is better than that of Dilu'in' in our Mishnah, where Rebbi Akiva agreed that, because he will consult the owner, the perpetrator will not receive Malkus (in which case he would not be Mo'el either) ... - because, whereas pumpkin is not a kind of vegetable, liver is certainly a kind of meat.

(c)Abaye disagrees with Rav Chisda, to establish the Mishnah in Me'ilah even like Rebbi Akiva - because Rebbi Akiva's argument is based on the fact that the Shali'ach will ask the owner about the commodity in question. In the Mishnah in Me'ilah, seeing as the Shali'ach failed to do so, he negated his Shelichus.

(d)When they told Rava what Abaye had said - he agreed with him.

54b----------------------------------------54b

6)

(a)The Tana Kama of the Beraisa (who holds like Rebbi Akiva) maintains that meat incorporates the animal's head, its legs, its wind-pipe, its liver and its heart. Does it also include ...

1. ... fowl?

2. ... fish and locusts?

(b)According to Raban Shimon ben Gamliel (the Tana who argues with Rebbi Akiva) all of the above are not considered Basar. Why is that?

(c)What does Raban Shimon ben Gamliel mean when he says that the innards of an animal are not considered meat and that someone who eats them is not considered a normal human-being?

6)

(a)The Tana Kama of the Beraisa (who holds like Rebbi Akiva) maintains that meat incorporates the animal's head, its legs, its wind-pipe, its liver and its heart. It also includes ...

1. ... fowl, but not ...

2. ... fish and locusts.

(b)According to Raban Shimon ben Gamliel (the Tana who argues with Rebbi Akiva) all of the above are not considered Basar - because any commodity that the Shali'ach needs to consult with the owner before purchasing is considered to be a different species (like we learned on the previous Amud).

(c)When Raban Shimon ben Gamliel says that the innards of an animal are not considered meat and that someone who eats them is not considered a normal human-being - he means that anyone who has money to buy meat and chooses to buys the innards (which are considered meat), is not a normal person, because they are poor quality meat, and normal people would not do that.

7)

(a)Seeing as a Shali'ach who does not find meat will ask the Meshale'ach whether he should buy fish, why does the Tana Kama of the Beraisa (Rebbi Akiva), who includes all parts of an animal in 'Basar', preclude fish?

7)

(a)Despite the fact that a Shali'ach who does not find meat will ask the Meshalei'ach whether he should buy fish, the Tana Kama of the Beraisa (Rebbi Akiva), who includes all the parts of the animal in 'Basar', still precludes fish - because the Tana is speaking when the Noder has just let blood, in which case, fish is bad for him.

8)

(a)What did Shmuel say about someone who eats fowl after having let blood from the shoulders?

(b)According to the Beraisa, what do fish, bird's meat and salted meat have in common?

(c)A second Beraisa adds four other commodities that one should not eat after letting blood; one of them is cress. What are the other three?

(d)In any event, we see that fowl is unhealthy after blood-letting. That being the case, why does the Tana Kama of Raban Shimon ben Gamliel in the Beraisa above (which, we just concluded, speaks after blood had been let) not preclude fowl (like he precludes fish) from things that are not considered Basar?

8)

(a)Shmuel said that someone who eats fowl after having let blood from his shoulders - becomes weak like a bird.

(b)According to the Beraisa, what fish, bird's meat and salted meat have in common is - that one should not any of them after blood-letting.

(c)A second Beraisa adds four other commodities that one should not eat after letting blood; one of them is cress - the other three are milk, cheese and eggs.

(d)In any event, we see that fowl is unhealthy after blood-letting. Nevertheless, the Tana Kama of Raban Shimon ben Gamliel in the Beraisa above (which we just concluded, speaks after blood had been let) does not preclude fowl (like he precludes fish) from things that are not considered Basar - because fowl can be eaten comfortably after blood-letting, as long as it is well-cooked.

9)

(a)What did Shmuel mean when he said 'Nun, Samech Ayin'?

(b)How will we reconcile Rava, who establishes the Beraisa, not after blood-letting had been performed, but when the Noder's eyes were hurting (and fish is bad for the eyes), with Shmuel?

9)

(a)When Shmuel said 'Nun, Samech Ayin' - he meant to say that fish is good for the eyes (as if it was written 'Nuna Sama l'Ayin'.)

(b)We reconcile Rava, who establishes the Beraisa, not after blood-letting had been performed, but when the Noder's eyes were hurting (and fish is bad for the eyes), with Shmuel - by establishing the latter by the end of the illness (when one can already eat fish), but not in its early stages, which is when the Beraisa speaks.

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