12TH CYCLE DEDICATION
NEDARIM 11 (23 Teves) - Dedicated by Mr. and Mrs. Sid Mosenkis (of Queens, N.Y.) in memory of Sid's father, Nachum ben Shlomo Dovid Mosenkis Z"L, on the day of his 68th Yahrzeit.

1)

(a)Rebbi Meir, in a Mishnah in Kidushin, learns from the Tenai of the Bnei Gad and the Bnei Reuven that every stipulation requires a Tenai Kaful (a double condition). What is the underlying reason for this?

(b)Why does that preclude him from being the author of our Mishnah?

(c)In which area of Halachah does Rebbi Meir agree that a Tenai Kaful is not required?

(d)Then why can he not be the author of our Mishnah, which speaks about Nedarim, which is an Isur?

1)

(a)Rebbi Meir, in a Mishnah in Kidushin, learns from the Tenai of the Bnei Gad and the Bnei Reuven that every stipulation requires a Tenai Kaful (a double condition). The underlying reason for this is - because he holds 'mi'Chelal Lav I Atah Shome'a Hen' (and vice-versa) meaning that we do not infer a 'Yes' under one set of circumstances, from a 'No' under the opposite set (i.e. everything must be said explicitly).

(b)That precludes him from being the author of our Mishnah - where 'la'Chulin Lo Ochal Lach' is valid by inference, as we explained earlier.

(c)Rebbi Meir agrees - that a Tenai Kaful is not required by Isurin (and it is only by Mamon that he requires it).

(d)Nevertheless, he cannot be the author of our Mishnah, which speaks about Nedarim, which is an Isur - because Nedarim incorporate Mamon too, since a Neder is only effective on an object, as we explained earlier.

2)

(a)Rebbi Yehudah argues with Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa in Gitin. What does he say there?

(b)Rebbi Chanina ben Gamliel also argues with Rebbi Meir. Why do we nevertheless prefer to establish our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah?

(c)Our Sugya opens with the statement 'Savruhah Mai la'Chulin, Lo Chulin'. How would we normally interpret this?

2)

(a)Rebbi Yehudah argues with Rebbi Meir in a Beraisa in Gitin - where he says that when someone divorces his wife because she made Nedarim, he does not require a Tenai Kaful (i.e. to add that, had she not made Nedarim, he would not divorce her).

(b)Rebbi Chanina ben Gamliel also argues with Rebbi Meir. Nevertheless, we prefer to establish our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah - because his name already appears there.

(c)Our Sugya opens with the statement 'Savruhah Mai la'Chulin, Lo Chulin' - which we would normally interpret to be a 'Havah Amina' (an initial supposition), from which we will later retract. But that is not the case here. This initial supposition remains intact throughout the Sugya.

3)

(a)We just established the Reisha of our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah. How do we reconcile this with the fact that he is the author of the Seifa, which implies that he is not the author of the Reisha?

(b)Who must be the author of the rest of that section of Mishnah 'k'Imra', 'k'Dirim', 'k'Etzim ... '?

(c)And how will we then reconcile our Mishnah with the Beraisa which quotes Rebbi Yehudah as saying 'ha'Omer ki'Yerushalayim, Lo Amar Klum ad she'Yidor b'Davar ha'Karev bi'Yerushalayim'?

(d)What is the basis of their Machlokes?

3)

(a)We just established the Reisha of our Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah. We reconcile this with the fact that he is the author of the Seifa, too - by establishing the entire Mishnah like Rebbi Yehudah, and the Seifa merely comes to clarify the Reisha (' ... Divrei Rebbi Yehudah, she'Rebbi Yehudah Omer, ha'Omer Yerushalayim, Lo Amar Klum').

(b)The author of the rest of that section of Mishnah 'k'Imra', 'k'Dirim', 'k'Etzim ... ' - must also be Rebbi Yehudah, because 'k'Imra', 'k'Dirim', 'k'Etzim ... ' have exactly the same Din as ki'Yerushalayim.

(c)Our Mishnah and the Beraisa which quotes Rebbi Yehudah as saying 'ha'Omer ki'Yerushalayim, Lo Amar Klum ad she'Yidor b'Davar ha'Karev bi'Yerushalayim' - are in conflict; it is in fact, a Machlokes Tana'im as to what Rebbi Yehudah holds.

(d)The basis of their Machlokes is - whether 'ki'Yerushalayim' refers to the Korbanos in Yerushalayim (the Tana of our Mishnah), or whether it refers to the wood and the stones of its buildings (the Tana of the Beraisa).

11b----------------------------------------11b

4)

(a)It is obvious that 'Chulin, ha'Chulin or k'Chulin she'Ochal Lach' is not considered a Neder. But on what grounds does the Beraisa say that even if he concluded 'she'Lo Ochal Lach', it is not a Neder either? Why can we not infer from that 'she'Ochal Lach, Korban'?

(b)What is then the problem with the Seifa 'la'Chulin she'Ochal Lach, Asur'?

(c)Why can we not answer that this is not really a case of 'mi'Chelal Lav Ata Shome'a Hen', because 'Lo Chulin' is synonymous with 'Korban'?

(d)What would be the most convenient solution to this Kashya?

4)

(a)It is obvious that 'Chulin, ha'Chulin or k'Chulin she'Ochal Lach' is not considered a Neder. The Beraisa rules that even if he concluded 'she'Lo Ochal Lach', it is not a Neder either (despite the inference 'she'Ochal Lach, Korban') - because the author of this Beraisa is Rebbi Meir, who holds 'mi'Chelal Lav I Ata Shome'a Hen'.

(b)The problem with the Seifa 'la'Chulin she'Ochal Lach, Asur' is - that it appears to be Asur only because of 'mi'Chelal Lav ... ', with which Rebbi Meir does not agree.

(c)We cannot answer that this is not really a case of 'mi'Chelal Lav Ata Shome'a Hen', because 'Lo Chulin' is synonymous with 'Korban' - seeing as we established the previous Mishnah (which also uses this wording) like Rebbi Yehudah (and not like Rebbi Meir) because he holds 'mi'Chelal Lav Ata Shome'a Hen'.

(d)The most convenient solution to this Kashya would be - to erase this section from the Beraisa.

5)

(a)The Ra'avad answers the previous Kashya by amending the Lashon. What do we now read instead of 'la'Chulin she'Ochal Lach'?

5)

(a)The Ra'avad answers the previous Kashya by amending the Lashon - from 'la'Chulin she'Ochal Lach' to 'la'Chalin she'Ochal Lach' (meaning Chalos Todah), removing the case from the realm of 'mi'Chelal Lav ... '.

6)

(a)In a Mishnah later, Rebbi Meir validates 'la'Korban Lo Ochal Lach'. Considering that Rebbi Meir holds 'mi'Chelal Lav I Ata Shome'a Hen', how does Rebbi Aba explain this statement?

(b)Throughout the Sugya, we have assumed 'la'Chulin' to mean 'Lo Chulin'. How can Rebbi Aba then explain Rebbi Meir in this way?

(c)What problem does this present on the Seifa of our Beraisa 'la'Chulin (or 'la'Chalin) Lo Ochal Lach ... '?

(d)Why do we only ask from Rebbi Aba on the Beraisa, and not on our Mishnah 'la'Korban she'Ochal Lach', which we established not like Rebbi Meir?

6)

(a)In a Mishnah later, Rebbi Meir validates 'la'Korban Lo Ochal Lach'. Bearing in mind that Rebbi Mes holds 'mi'Chelal Lav I Ata Shome'a Hen', Rebbi Aba explains this statement to mean 'l'Korban Yehei, Lefichach Lo Ochal Lach'.

(b)Despite the fact that throughout the Sugya, we have assumed 'la'Chulin' to mean 'Lo Chulin', Rebbi Aba explains Rebbi Meir in this way - because 'la'Chulin' is actually ambiguous; so, following the principle 'Stam Nedarim Lehachmir, we explain it in such a way that the Neder should take effect.

(c)The problem this presents on the Seifa of the Beraisa is - why the Tana then states there 'la'Chulin (or 'la'Chalin) Lo Ochal Lach, Mutar'? Why can we not explain that case too, like Rebbi Aba (in order to conform with the Mishnah there)?

(d)We only ask from Rebbi Aba on the Beraisa, and not on our Mishnah 'la'Korban she'Ochal Lach', which we established categorically not like Rebbi Meir - because, whereas 'Lo Ochal Lach, Mutar' lends itself to this explanation, 'she'Ochal Lach' does not.

7)

(a)We could answer that, although the Tana of our Beraisa agrees with Rebbi Meir regarding 'mi'Chelal Lav I Ata Shome'a Hen', he disagrees with the Tana of the Mishnah (as explained by Rebbi Aba). According to him, 'la'Korban, Lo Ochal Lach' is no more a Neder than 'la'Chulin Lo Ochal Lach'. How does Rav Ashi reconcile the two?

(b)How will we explain Rav Ashi's answer according to the Ra'avad, who reads 'Chalin', instead of 'Chulin' (according to the Ran, who differentiates between 'le'Chalin' and 'la'Chalin')? In which case will we apply Rebbi Aba's explanation, and in which case will we not?

(c)According to this explanation, we will have to read the middle case in the Beraisa 'le'Chalin she'Ochal Lach, Asur', and the Seifa 'la'Chalin Lo Ochal Lach Mutar'. What is the Chidush in each case?

7)

(a)We could answer that the Tana of our Beraisa agrees with Rebbi Meir regarding 'mi'Chelal Lav I Ata Shome'a Hen', he disagrees with the Tana of the Mishnah (as explained by Rebbi Aba). According to him, 'la'Korban, Lo Ochal Lach' is no more a Neder than 'la'Chulin Lo Ochal Lach'. Rav Ashi however, reconciles the two - by differentiating between 'Lo Chulin' (which would be subject to Rebbi Aba's explanation) and 'la'Chulin', which is not (because it implies that it is not Chulin, but a Korban, in which case, it could only be valid if we were to apply the principle 'mi'Chelal Lav ... '). Note: This is Tosfos explanation, according to our text; the Ran has a different text and a different explanation.

(b)According to the Ra'avad, who reads 'Chalin', instead of 'Chulin' - if he would say 'l'Chalin Lo Ochal Lach', we would explain it like Rebbi Aba, and the Neder would be valid. The Seifa of the Beraisa however, speaks when he said 'la'Chalin Lo Ochal Lach', in which case, Rebbi Aba's explanation is not applicable.

(c)According to this explanation, we will have to read the middle case in the Beraisa 'l'Chalin she'Ochal Lach, Asur', and the Seifa 'la'Chalin Lo Ochal Lach, Mutar'. The Chidush in the former case will be - that even though he concluded his declaration with a lenient-sounding phrase, the Neder is valid; and in the latter case - that even though he concluded with a stringent-sounding one, it is not.

8)

(a)If we rule 'mi'Chelal Lav Ata Shome'a Hen' (like Rebbi Yehudah in our Stam Mishnah), why did Shmuel in Gitin institute a Tenai Kaful in the Get of a Shechiv Mera (a man on his death-bed [that the Get should be valid should he die, but not in the event that he survives) like Rebbi Meir?

8)

(a)Despite the fact that we rule 'mi'Chelal Lav Ata Shome'a Hen' (like Rebbi Yehudah in our Stam Mishnah), Shmuel in Gitin instituted a Tenai Kaful in the Get of a Sh'chiv-Mera (a man on his death-bed [that the Get should be valid should he die, but not in the event that he survives]) like Rebbi Meir - because he is afraid of an erring Beis-Din, who hold like Rebbi Meir, and who will therefore go on to invalidate the Get, even in the event of her husband's recovery (should the condition not be doubled).

9)

(a)What do we learn from the Pasuk in Re'eh "v'Dam Zevachecha Yishafech, ve'ha'Basar Tochel"?

(b)Why do we therefore refute the initial version of Rami bar Chama's She'eilah (what will be the Din if someone declares 'Harei Alai ki'Besar Zivchei Shelamim l'Achar Zerikas Damim')?

(c)Then what is the correct version of Rami bar Chama's She'eilah?

(d)What are the two sides of the She'eilah?

9)

(a)We learn from the Pasuk in Re'eh "v'Dam Zevachecha Yishafech, v'ha'Basar Tochel" - that once the blood of a Korban has been sprinkled, the flesh becomes permitted to the owner (or to the Cohen), but not before.

(b)We therefore refute the initial version of Rami bar Chama's She'eilah (what will be the Din if someone declares 'Harei Alai ki'Besar Zivchei Shelamim l'Achar Zerikas Damim') - because, seeing as he was Matfis his Neder on something that is permitted, his Neder is invalid.

(c)The correct version of Rami bar Chama's She'eilah - is regarding a person who has before him a piece of Shelamim meat after the Zerikas Damim and a piece of Chulin, and who then says 'Zeh ka'Zeh'.

(d)The She'eilah is - whether he is being Matfis on the Korban in its current state (when it is permitted), or in its original state (when it was forbidden).

10)

(a)If one is Matfis on Shelamim after the Zerikah, why is his Neder not valid, seeing as the flesh of the Korban is to Teme'im, and because of the Chazeh v'Shok, which are forbidden to Zarim?

(b)What do the following have in common: Someone who is Matfis the Terumas Lachmei Todah or the meat of a Bechor (both after the Zerikas Damim), and someone who is Matfis Chalas Aharon or his Terumah?

10)

(a)If one is Matfis on Shelamim after the Zerikah, his Neder is not valid, in spite of the fact that the flesh of the Korban is forbidden to Teme'im, and because of the Chazeh v'Shok, which are forbidden to Zarim - because these are not forbidden directly through his original Neder (which forbade the entire animal to anyone before its Shechitah), but due to the subsequent Isurim placed on it by the Torah'. Consequently, they constitute a 'Davar ha'Asur' and not a 'Davar ha'Nadur', and the Neder is not valid.

(b)The common denominator between Someone who is Matfis the Terumas Lachmei Todah or the meat of a Bechor (both after the Zerikas Damim), and someone who is Matfis Chalas Aharon or his Terumah is - that, like the previous case, they are all 'Davar ha'Asur' and not 'Davar ha'Nadur', in which case the Neder is not valid.

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