KERISUS 18 (8 Elul) - Dedicated in memory of Esther Miryam bas Harav Chaim Zev and her husband Harav Refael Yisrael ben Harav Moshe (Snow), whose Yahrzeits are 7 Elul and 8 Elul respectively. Sponsored by their son and daughter in law, Moshe and Rivka Snow.

1)

TOSFOS DH EISEIVEIH ABAYE (This Dibur belongs on the previous Daf)

úåñ' ã"ä àéúéáéä àáéé

(Summary: Tosfos asks a Kashya.)

ëì äðê ôéøëé îöé ìîéôøê ìòéì ìçééà áø øá.

(a)

Implied Question: The Gemara could have asked all these Kashyos earlier on Chiya bar Rav,)

2)

TOSFOS DH HA'SHOCHET ASHAM TALUY B'CHUTZ REBBI MEIR MECHAYEV

úåñ' ã"ä äùåçè àùí úìåé áçåõ ø' îàéø îçééá

(Summary: Tosfos reconciles this with the Sugya later in Perek ha'Meivi.)

åàó òì âá ãø' îàéø ÷àîø ì÷îï ôø÷ äîáéà (ãó ëâ:) 'àí ðåãò ìå ñôé÷å, éöà åéøòä áòãø- ãäåà éåöà ìçåìéï ...

(a)

Implied Question: Even though Rebbi Meir says later (in Perek ha'Meivi, Daf 26b) that 'If he is aware of his Safek, he is Yotzei, and the animal goes to graze with the herd - because it has gone out to Chulin ...

äëà îééøé ÷åãí ùðåãò ìå, ãòãééï ùí àùí òìéå.

1.

Answer: It speaks here before he got to know about it, in which case it is still called an Asham.

3)

TOSFOS DH V'CHAMIM POTRIN

úåñ' ã"ä åçëîéí ôåèøéï

(Summary: Tosfos clarifies to which Chachamim this pertains.)

ìàå äééðå çëîéí ãì÷îï ãôìéâé òìéä ãøáé îàéø ôø÷ äîáéà (â"æ ùí) ãàîø 'éøòä òã ùéñúàá åéîëø åéôìå ãîéå ìðãáä' ...

(a)

Refuted Explanation: This is not the Chachamim mentioned later, who argue with Rebbi Meir in Perek ha'Meivi (Ibid.), who says that it should graze in the meadow until it obtains a blemish, when it is sold, and the proceeds go to Nedavah' ...

ãàí ëï, ä÷ãù âîåø äåà åçééáéï òìéå áçåõ ...

1.

Reason: Because in that case, it is completely Hekdesh and one is Chayav if one Shechts it outside the Azarah ...

àìà çëîéí äééðå ëø' îàéø åòãéôé îø' îàéø, ãôèøé àôéìå ÷åãí ùðåãò ìå.

(b)

Authentic Explanation: But it is like Rebbi Meir - even going further than Rebbi Meir, since they declare him Patur even before he knows about it.

4)

TOSFOS DH BANU L'MACHLOKES REBBI ELIEZER V'CHACHAMIM ETC. MAI AYRI KI ACHLAH AFILU KI LO ACHLU NAMI D'HA T'NAN REBBI ELIEZER OMER MISNADEV ETC.

úåñ' ã"ä áàðå ìîçìå÷ú øáé àìéòæø åçëîéí ëå' îàé àéøéà ëé àëìä àôé' ëé ìà àëìä ðîé ãäà úðï ø' àìéòæø àåîø îúðãá ëå'

(Summary: Tosfos clarifies the Gemara's question and answer and elaborates.)

åàí úàîø, îàé ôøéê? àéï äëé ðîé îúðãá, àáì äëà äåà îçééá àùí òáåø çèàå, å÷î"ì öøéê ùéáéàðå, åìà áòéðï çúéëä îùúé çúéëåú?

(a)

Question #1: What is the Gemara's Kashya? Grante, he can volunteer an Asham Taluy, but here he is Chayav an Asham on account of his sin, and he is teaching us that he is obligated to bring it and that we do not require one of two pieces?

åòåã ÷ùä, àîàé ìà ôøéê ìéä ìòéì òì ääéà 'ø' àìéòæø àîø ëåé çééáéï òì çìáå àùí úìåé'?

(b)

Question #2: Moreover, why did the Gemara not ask earlier, when Rebbi Eliezer ruled that one is Chayav to bring an Asham Taluy on the Cheilev of a coy?

åéù ìåîø, ãäëé ôøéê ' -îàé àéøéà ëé àëìä' ... ôéøåù -òì ëøçê äàé ø' àìéòæø ãäëà ìàå äééðå øáé àìéòæø ãëåé, ãàí ëï, îàé ÷à îùîò ìï øá ðçîï ... ?

(c)

Answer: What the Gemara means to ask is 'Why does he say 'ki Achlah' - in other words Rebbi Eliezer here cannot be the Rebbi Eliezer of Coy, because if it was, what is Rav Nachman coming to teach us? ...

àìà ìòéì âøñ øáé àìòæø åäëà âøñ ø' àìéòæø, ãäåà áø ôìåâúéä ãøáé éäåùò.

1.

Answer (cont.): We must therefore say that above the text reads Rebbi Elazar and here, Rebi Eliezer, who is the disputant of Rebbi Yehoshua.

åëï îåëç äñåâéà îèòîà àùø ôéøùúé.

(d)

Proof: And this is the implication of the Sugyaa for the reason that Tosfos gave.

åìëê ôøéê äà ãàîø ãáçúéëä àçú îçééá øáé àìéòæø àùí úìåé, îðà ìê ...

(e)

Introduction to Question: That is why the Gemara asks from where does Rav know that on one piece Rebbi Eliezer is Mechayev an Asham Taluy ...

äà ìà îùëçú ãøáé àìéòæø ìà îöøéê ùúé çúéëåú àìà îèòîà ãàîø ã'îúðãá àãí àùí [úìåé] áëì éåí' ...

1.

Introduction to Question (cont.): The only proof we have that he does not require two pieces is from his ruling that 'A person is permitted to volunteer an Asham Taluy every day' ...

åîùåí äëé îééúé àôéìå áçúéëä àçú ,åàí ëï çåáä ìà äåé- åàí ëï àôéìå ëé ìà àëì ðîé?

2.

Question: Which is why he may bring even on one piece. In that case, seeing as it is not an obligatory Korban, he may bring it even if he did not eat at all?

åîùðé øáé àìéòæø [àìéáà] ãááà áï áåèà [÷àîø], åáîåöàé éåí äëéôåøéí, ëãôéøù ä÷åðèøñ.

(f)

Answer: And the Gemara answers that Rebbi is speaking according to Bava ben Buta, and he brings the Asham on Motza'ei Yom Kipur (See Shitah Mekubetzes 20), as Rashi explains.

åàúà ìàùîåòéðï ãøáé àìéòæø ñáø 'éù àí ìîñåøú' -å"îöåú" ëúéá ...

1.

Answer (cont.): And he (Rav) is coming to teach us that Rebbi Eliezer holds 'Yesh Eim li'Mesores' (See Mayim Kedoshim) - and the Torah writes "Mitzvas" ...

åàó òì âá ãàùëçðà ãø' àìéòæø àéú ìéä ôø÷ ÷îà ã÷ãåùéï (ãó éç:) 'éù àí ìîñåøú' âáé á"áâãå" áä...

2.

Implied Question: Even though we find in the first Perek of Kidushin (Daf 18b) that Rebbi Eliezer holds 'Yesh Eim li'Mesores', regarding the Pasuk "be'Vigdo vah" ...

åàí ëï, ìéúðé 'àëìä- ' çåáä ,ã"îöåú" ëúéá áä ,ìà àëìä- ðãáä îëì î÷åí... ?

3.

Implied Question (cont.): In which case, let him say 'Achlah' - Chovah, since the Pasuk writes "Mitzvas'' Lo Achlah - Nedavah in any event? (See Mayim Kedoshim) ...

òì ëøçê ìà àúé äëà îäàé èòîà ãñáø ã'éù àí ìîñåøú ... '

(g)

Answer: It cannot possibly be coming to teach us that Rebbi Eliezer's reason is based on 'Yesh Eim li'Mesores' ...

ãàí ëï, îöé îééúé ëîå ëï àçøéðé èåáà ãñáø ã'éù àí ìîñåøú.'

(h)

Proof #1: Because if so, it could just as well have quoted other Tana'im who hold 'Yesh Eim li'Mesores'.

åòåã, àôéìå ñáø áòìîà ã'éù àí ìîñåøú' ,ñáéøà ìéä äëà 'éù àí ìî÷øà' îèòí ùôéøùúé ìòéì.

(i)

Proof #2: Moreover, even if generally, he holds 'Yesh Eim li'Mesores', here he will hold 'Yesh Eim le'Mikra, for the reason that Tosfoe explained earlier (See Birchas ha'Zevach).

18b----------------------------------------18b

5)

TOSFOS DH V'HA'TANYA KOL SHE'CHALUKOS ETC.

úåñ' ã"ä åäúðéà ëì ùçìå÷åú ëå'

(Summary: Tosfos explains why there is no Kashya as to the fact that the author of this Beraisa is Rebbi Yehudah and not Rebbi.)

åàó òì âá ãø' éäåãä ÷àîø ìä ìòéì (ãó èå:)...

(a)

Implied Question: Even though it is Rebbi Yehudah who said this - earlier (on Daf 15b) ...

îëì î÷åí ìà îùîò ãôìéâ òìéä øáé áäà.

1.

Answer: Nevertheless there is no indication that Rebbi disagrees with him in this point.

åìøáé éåñé áøáé éäåãä äëé ôéøåùå -ëì ùçìå÷åú ìçèàåú ëâåï çìá åãí ôéâåì åðåúø, çìå÷éï ìàùîåú, ãöøéê ìäáéà àùí úìåé òì ëì àçú åàçú ...

(b)

Clarification: And as for Rebbi Yossi b'Rebi Yehudah - what he means is that whatever divides for Chata'os such as Cheilev, Dam, Pigul and Nosar also divides for Ashamos, and one is Chayav to bring an Asham Taluy for each one ...

àáì áéãéòä ìà ÷îééøé ...

1.

Clarification (cont.): He is not however, talking about Yedi'os ...

ãäà ñáø ãàó áàùîåú, àéï éãéòåú îçì÷åú.

2.

Reason: Where he holds that even by Ashamos, Yedi'os do not divide.

åâí ìøáà äëé ôéøåùå -ëì ùçìå÷åú ìçèàåú áéãéòú åãàé ,çìå÷åú ìàùîåú áéãéòú ñô÷.

(c)

Clarification (cont.): And also according to Rava the explanation is that - Whatever divides by Chata'os with a Vaday Yedi'ah, divides by Ashamos with a Yedi'as Safek.

6)

TOSFOS DH ELA ME'ATAH ACHAL K'ZAYIS CHEILEV LIFNEI YOM HA'KIPURIM U'KEZAYIS L'ACHAR YOM HA'KIPURIM

úåñ' ã"ä àìà îòúä àëì ëæéú çìá ìôðé éåä"ë åëæéú ìàçø éåä"ë

(Summary: Tosfos explains the Kashya.)

ãäùúà àéëà ùúé àùîåú: àëéìú çìá ãìôðé éåä"ë, ëéôø éåä"ë áî÷åí àùí; åàëéìú çìá ãìàçø éåä"ë -îáéà òìéå àùí- åäùúà àéëà á' àùîåú ...

(a)

Clarifying Question: Since then there will be two Ashamos - one for eating Cheilev before Yom Kipur, in which case Yom Kipur stands in place of an Asham; the other, for eating Cheilev after Yom Kipur, for which he brings an Asham - which means that there are two Ashamos ...

äëé ðîé ãàí ðåãò ìå àçø ëê òì ùðéäï, ùéáéà ùúé çèàåú- åäà àëìí áäòìí àçú? ...

(b)

Clarifying Question (cont.): Will you now say that if he later becomes aware of both Achilos, that he brings two Chata'os - bearing in mind that he ate them both in one He'elam? ...

àìà ìà îééúé...

1.

Clarifying Question (cont.): He certainly does not ...

åàí ëï ùîò îéðä ãäàé ëììà 'ëì ùçìå÷éï ...' ìéúà, ùäøé äëà àéëà á' àùîåú åìéëà ëé àí çèàú àçú?

2.

Clarifying Question (concl.): A proof that the principle 'Kol she'Chalukin ... ' is not correct, seeing as there are two Ashamos but only one Chatas?

7)

TOSFOS DH AMAR LEIH DILMA YOM HA'KIPURIM EINO MECHAPER ELA IM KEIN HODA

úåñ' ã"ä àîø ìéä ãéìîà éåí äëéôåøéí àéðå îëôø àìà àí ëï äåãò

(Summary: Tosfos clarifies the case.)

åòúä éù ùúé çèàåú ëîå ùúé àùîåú.

(a)

Clarification: Now there are two Chata'os just as there are two Ashamos.

8)

TOSFOS DH AMAR LEIH RAVA BAR RAV CHANAN T'RADA

úåñ' ã"ä àîø ìéä øáà áø øá çðï úøãà

(Summary: Tosfos clarifies the identity of Rava bar Rav Chanan.)

øáà áø øá çðï äéä çáø àáéé ...

(a)

Clarifying Identity: Rava bar Rav Chanan was Abaye's Chaver ...

ëãàéúà ôø÷ ëéöã îùúúôéï (òøåáéï, ãó ôå.).

1.

Source: As we find in Perek Keitzad Mishtatfin (Eruvin, Daf 86a).

9)

TOSFOS DH HA D'NAKAT ...

úåñ' ã"ä äà ãð÷è ...

(Summary: Tosfos explains the Gemara's statement.)

çìá ùçøéú áéåí äëéôåøéí.

(a)

Clarification: Cheilev in the morning of Yom Kipur (See Shitah Mekubetzes 20).

åìà ð÷è îéìúà ãäéúø- åçééá ÷øáï òáåø éåí äëéôåøéí òöîå ãàñåøä áàëéìä ...

(b)

Implied Question: He does not discuss a food that is permitted - where he will be Chayav a Korban on account of Yom Kipur itself, when eating is prohibited ...

ãàí ëï öøéê ìîéð÷è 'ëëåúáú' ùäåà ùéòåø àëéìú éåí äëéôåøéí...

(c)

Answer: Because then he would need to give the Shi'ur of a Koseves which is the Shi'ur for eating on Yom Kipur ...

åð÷è ùéòåø æåèà- åìëê ð÷è ëæéú çìá ùäåà ôçåú.

1.

Answer (cont.): And he wants to mention the smaller Shi'ur (See Olas Shlomoh) - so he mentions a k'Zayis of Cheilev, which is less.

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