More Discussions for this daf
1. The value of Pi 2. Shtei Luchos 3. Order of Nevi'im
4. Width of Sefer Torah 5. Rashi DH Al Yedei 6. The Box Given By The Pelishtim
DAF DISCUSSIONS - BAVA BASRA 14

Boruch Kahan asks:

I have an interesting Heoroh. In this Gemoro there is a discussion who were the authors/composers of Sifrei Tenach. Famously Tehillim is said to have been composed by many including Odom Horishon and Rashi in his Pirush brings that Odom composed 139.Having had a chance over Chol Hamoed to look at the Medrash Rabbah on Koheles very early on in Pereek 1 at the end of Ois 3 the Medrash brings a famous piece that comes up other times that Mizmor Shir Leyom HaShabbos Tehillim 92 was said by Odom. OK so you can say that Odom made 2 but if you look at the Meforshim on Tehillim 139 they bring a Gemoro in Sanhedrin bottom of 38a top of 38b as the Mekor for what Rashi brings in Bovo Basro BUT IT DOES NOT SAY ANYHWERE IN THAT GEMORO IN SANHEDRIN THAT ODOM SAID IT just that the Pesukim refer to him "Ma She Ein Keyn" to the Medrash in Koheles that says clearly in black and white that Odom made Tehillim 92 so why does Rashi prefer to mention Tehillim 139 as opposed to Tehillim 92 as the Tehillim that Odom Horishon made.

Gut Moed Boruch Kahan

Boruch Kahan, London uk

The Kollel replies:

It seems to me that one does see from the Gemara in Sanhedrin (end of 38a) that Adam ha'Rishon said Tehilim 139:16. The Gemara there says that the earth from which Adam was made was collected from the entire world. The word "Golmi" -- my Golem, the shapeless mass from which I was created, must have been said by Adam referring to the way he was created. I suggest that Rashi in Bava Basra preferred to bring this verse because it is easier to see according to the simple Peshat that it is talking about the creation of Adam ha'Rishon. It is more difficult to see in Tehilim 92 that the simple meaning refers to the creation of Adam ha'Rishon. Rashi in his commentary on Shas tries to stay with the Pashut Peshat wherever possible.

Reb Boruch, a Gezunter Vinter!

Dovid Bloom

The Kollel adds:

Here is an additional suggestion for why Rashi does not mention Tehilim 92.

The fact is that he does actually mention 92, but this is later on when he quotes the Gemara that Moshe Rabeinu was one of the 10 elders who wrote Tehilim. Rashi writes that Moshe said all 11 chapters of Tehilim 90-100.

The problem is that this includes chapter 92, and we know that Adam ha'Rishon said this chapter! I suggest the following solution, based on the Midrash Rabah, Parshas Bereshis, end of chapter 22. The Midrash cites Rebbi Levi who said that Adam ha'Rishon said chapter 92, but that it was later forgotten by his generation until Moshe Rabeinu came along and renewed it in his own name.

(The Maharzav explains that the first letters of the first four words of the Mizmor are Mem, Shin, Lamed, and Heh, and if we rearrange these letters we get "l'Moshe," which is how we know that Moshe renewed it.)

So we now know that both Adam ha'Rishon and Moshe Rabeinu had a part in Tehilim 92. However, Rashi did not want to mention that 92 was said by Adam because this would have confused us when we came to Rashi two lines later and read that Moshe said it. Therefore, Rashi chose a simpler option and cited Tehilim 139:16 and 139:17.

By the way, we can suggest that the reason why Rashi also mentioned 139:17, apart from it being the next verse in that chapter, is that the Gemara in Sanhedrin 38b proves from here that Adam ha'Rishon spoke Aramaic.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

Boruch Kahan adds:

I believe we can Mamshich this discussion with another Marei Mokom that I was B.H. Zoicheh to see over Shabbos in the Medrash Rabbo on Sefer Bereishis Perek 22 Ois 13 that the Etz Yoisef is Masbir there that even though Mizmor Shir Leyom HaShabbos was said by Odom it seems to have got lost through the Doiros and was re-established by Moshe Rabbeinu with the fact that the first second and fourth make his name and the third word ie starting with a Lamed was a form of Anavoh

Anyway "Bekol Oifan" it backs up your Yesoid that the Golmi is more appropriate for Odom to have said the Mizmor Shir

Ayin Shom with all the Meforshim and let me know your Heoros.

The Kollel replies:

Reb Boruch, this seems to be two Nevi'im giving a Nevu'ah in the same Signon!

1) I now have a new Peshat why Rashi did not write that Adam ha'Rishon said Perek 92. This is because we say every Shabbos morning in Shacharis, "And the seventh day praises and says, 'Mizmor Shir l'Yom ha'Shabbos.'" So it was not Adam who said Perek 92 but it was the Shabbos day itself that said it! But how does this reconcile with the Midrash that Adam said it? I think we can answer this question based on the Yalkut Shimoni on Tehilim 92, which tells us that Adam started to sing "Mizmor Shir l'Yom ha'Shabbos." The Shabbos said to Adam, "Are you saying a hymn for me? You and I should say a hymn for ha'Kadosh Baruch Hu: 'It is good to thank Hashem.'"

2) Possibly with the above Peshat we can understand Rabeinu Gershom on Bava Basra 14b, who does write that the Tehilim the Gemara refers to as said by Adam ha'Rishon is Perek 92. However, Rabeinu Gershom writes that it was said "Bishvil" Adam ha'Rishon. He seems to be saying that it was said for Adam, not actually by him.

3) Possibly what Rabeinu Gershom means is that the Shabbos day helped sing it for Adam, but Adam did not actually sing all of it on his own.

Kol Tuv,

Dovid Bloom

The Kollel adds:

I sent this question to a Gadol and he replied:

" Shom Mefurash She-Omar"

In Tehilim 139 it says explicitly that it was said by Odom.

I think this is like my first reply. Boruch She-kivanti!

Reb Boruch, A freilecher Chanukah!

Dovid Bloom