More Discussions for this daf
1. Chanukah and the 3/(6) Shevu'os 2. Giving food to an animal
DAF DISCUSSIONS - KESUVOS 112

A Kirsch asks:

The gemara in kesubas bring down 3 shavous and one of them is to not be rebel againsts the goyim. Why was the milchamah of chanuka not against the shavou not to be mored against the goyim?

A Kirsch, israel

The Kollel replies:

The simple answer must be that the 3 oaths do not apply when the goyim try to prevent the Jewish people from observing the Torah. The Chashmonaim fought to liberate the Beit Hamikdash which the Greeks had defiled. The 3 oaths would not apply to this defensive action.

Chanukah Sameach

Dovid Bloom

Follow-up reply:

I found that the Klausenberger Rebbe zt'l writes on the lines of my above answer, but with a lot more explanation, of course.

1) This is to be found in Shefa Chayim on Parshas Vayeshev. It is in Ma'amar 3 section 3.

Shefa Chayim explains that when Yosef HaTzadik was young he believed that one should be "dochek ha-keitz". This is actually one of the 6 shavuos mentioned in our Gemara, according to the reading of Rashi DH v'Shelo, that we promised not to do. Rashi explains that this is derived from the word "dochek" and means one should not push too hard. One should not make too many petitions to Hash-m that the Mashiach should come.

2) This was the argument between Yosef and his brothers. Yosef believed that there was so much darkness in the world; that the time had arrived where there was no choice but to "dochek et ha-keitz". Yosef's brothers disagreed and beleived that as long as their father Yaakov was alive the darkness in the world was not great enough to justify dochek et ha-keitz. Because Yosef believed that the world was full of spiritual "snakes and scorpions" his punishment was to be thrown into a pit which was full of physical snakes and scorpions.

4) We now transfer ourselves from the situation of Yosef in the pit to the situation thousands of years later when the entire Jewish people was in the "pit" of Greek domination. A terrible spiritual darkness covered the world, as the Midrash (Bereshit Rabbah 2:4) tells us that "the darkness over the waters" (Bereshit 1:2) refers to the Greek exile when only a few people remained faithful to Hash-m and His Torah. The situation was so bad that it seemed that it was impossible to overcome the tumah in the world and people seemed no longer to possess free choice. It was on this background that Matityahu gathered courage to fight the Greeks and gain a supernatural victory over the World Superpower.

5) Shefa Chayim now cites a Midrash Peliah #31 (amazing Midrash) which explains the verse (Shir Hashirim 4:17) "The mandrakes give off a fragance; and at our doors is every delicacy". The Midrash says that "the mandrakes give off their fragrance" refers to Reuven who saved Yosef from the pit [Reuven is referred to as a mandrake because that is the fruit that he brought to his mother from the field]. "At our doors is every delicacy" refers to the Chanukah candles we light at our doors. The connection between Yosef and Chanukah is that it is only in such dire circumstances that one is permitted "dochek et ha-keitz". Matityahu was dochek et hakeitz because there was absolutely no other alternative for Klal Yisrael. Similarly a miracle happened to save Yosef from the snakes and scorpions because there was no other way out.

6) Shefa Chayim is discussing explicitly dochek et hakeitz; not rebelling against the nations; but it seems to me that in this respect there would be no difference between these 2 oaths. What we learn from Matityahu is that one may only rebel against the nations in a very extreme crisis, similar to that which existed in the time of the Chashmonayim.

KOL TUV

Dovid Bloom