CHULIN 48 (8 Shevat) - Dedicated in honor of the birthday of Gila Linzer.

1)

(a)What does Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman say about a lung which is stuck to the wall of the chest?

(b)Under which circumstances does he consider it T'reifah?

(c)What does Mar Yehudah in the name of Avimi say?

(d)According to Mar Yehudah, how does one check the lung in the case where there are no ulcers (see Tosfos DH 'Maysinan'), based on what Ravin bar Sh'va told Rava?

1)

(a)Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman rules that a lung which is stuck to the wall of the chest - is Kasher (because we attribute the fusion to a wound in the wall of the chest) ...

(b)... unless ulcers developed on that area of the lung (indicating that the fault lies with the lung).

(c)Mar Yehudah in the name of Avimi declares the animal T'reifah - either way.

(d)According to Mar Yehudah, based on what Ravin bar Sh'va told Rava, one can check the lung (in the case where it does not have ulcers [Tosfos DH 'Maysinan']) - by severing it from the wall of the chest with a very sharp knife, (so as not to tear the skin of the lung) and examining the wall of the chest for wounds, as Ravin bar Sh'va explained to Rava. If there are, then we declare the animal Kasher; and if there are not, it is T'reifah.

2)

(a)Even if no wound was found on the chest-wall, Rav Nechemyah b'rei de'Rav Yosef would still examine the lung. How would he do that?

(b)According to Mar Zutra b'rei de'Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Papi, it was not on this case that Rav Nechemyah b'rei de'Rav Yosef prescribed the warm water test, but on a case cited by Rava that we learned earlier. Which case is that?

(c)On what grounds did Rav Ashi object to Mar Zutra b'rei de'Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Papi's version?

(d)According to Rav Ashi, why might the test prove negative, even though one of the lobes must have had a hole?

2)

(a)If no wound was found on the chest-wall, Rav Nechemyah b'rei de'Rav Yosef would still examine the lung - by placing it in warm water, and then blowing it up and testing it for bubbles.

(b)According to Mar Zutra b'rei de'Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Papi it was not on this case that Ravin bar Sh'va prescribed the warm water test, but on a case cited by Rava that we learned earlier - that of two lobes of the liver that were joined.

(c)Rav Ashi objected to Mar Zutra b'rei de'Rav Huna b'rei de'Rav Papi's version - on the grounds that whereas in our case, if the test proves negative, one can attribute the fusion to the chest-wall, in Rava's case of the two lungs, Mah Nafshach one of the lobes has a hole, so what is the point of the test?

(d)According to Rav Ashi, even though one of the lobes must have a hole, the test might prove negative - because of a crust that grew over it.

3)

(a)What does Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman say about an animal with a lung that has a hole which is blocked by the wall of the chest?

(b)Then why is there a problem with the animal in the previous case?

(c)What is considered the lung's usual location.

(d)Which ruling of Rav Nachman is Halachah, and which is not?

3)

(a)Rav Yosef bar Minyumi Amar Rav Nachman rules that an animal with a lung that has a hole which is blocked by the wall of the chest - is Kasher.

(b)And the problem with the animal in the previous case - is based on the fact that Rav Nachman there is speaking about where the lung became stuck to the wall of the chest in a location where they do not generally grow together (if it is the Uma, which is not situated close to the chest wall, nevertheless became stuck to it), in which case the Uma and the chest wall stand to tear apart, whereas Rav Yosef bar Minyumi is speaking where the lung got stuck to the chest wall in a location where they generally grow together ...

(c)... where it is the Unos (which lie beside the wall of the chest) that became fused with the wall.

(d)We follow Rav Nachman's ruling regarding a lung that sticks to the chest wall in its location (an Una), since nobody argues with him; but not like his ruling permitting one that sticks to the chest wall not in its location (an Uma), since Avimi argues with him, and we always go le'Chumra in cases that are d'Oraysa.

4)

(a)How does Ravina qualify Rav Nachman's ruling, permitting an animal whose punctured Una is blocked by the chest wall. Under which circumstances will we declare it T'reifah?

(b)Rav Yosef queries Ravina from a Beraisa. On what grounds does the Tana declare someone who has a hole in his penis, Pasul (to marry a regular Yisre'eilis)?

(c)And what will be the Din if the hole becomes sealed?

(d)The Beraisa concludes 've'Zehu P'sul she'Chozer le'Hechshero'. What can we extrapolate from there? How does Rav Yosef query Ravina from there?

4)

(a)Ravina qualifies Rav Nachman's ruling permitting an animal whose punctured Una is blocked by the chest wall - by confining it to where it is firmly stuck to the flesh, but if it is stuck to the ribs, the animal is T'reifah (from which it is clear that Rav Nachman considers the animal to have a hole, though it is unclear how else one might have interpreted him).

(b)Rav Yosef queries Ravina from a Beraisa, which declares someone who has a hole in his penis, Pasul (to marry a regular Yisre'eilis) - because the Zera is no longer able to shoot like an arrow, in which case, it cannot form a baby.

(c)If the hole becomes sealed - then the prohibition falls away.

(d)The Beraisa concludes 've'Zehu P'sul she'Chozer le'Hechshero' - implying that there is another case where the P'sul is irreversible (which Rav Yosef assumes to be Rav Nachman's case of a lung that became punctured and was then sealed by the chest wall (a Kashya on Ravina).

5)

(a)Ravina counters however, that ve'Zehu comes to preclude another similar case, concerning a hole in the lung, which we have already discussed. Which case?

(b)Rav Ukva bar Chama queries Ravina from his own case, if the corresponding chest wall were to subsequently become punctured. What problem does he have with that? What ought our Mishnah to have inserted?

(c)To which Ravina retorts that Rav Ukva bar Chama might just as well have asked on our Mishnah from a ruling by Rav Yitzchak bar Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan. What does Rebbi Yochanan say about a gall-bladder that became punctured and that was subsequently blocked by the liver?

(d)Why is this a Kashya on our Mishnah?

(e)So why in fact, *does* our Mishnah omit the case of ...

1. ... Nekuvas ha'Kaved?

2. ... Nekuvas ha'Dofen?

5)

(a)Ravina counters however, that ve'Zehu comes to preclude another similar case - that of a hole in the lung which became sealed with a crust (as we have already learned).

(b)Rav Ukva bar Chama queries Ravina from his own case, if the corresponding chest wall were to subsequently become punctured - then the animal would be T'reifah once more. In that case, why does our Mishnah not insert Nekuvas ha'Dofen in the list of T'reifos?

(c)To which Ravina retorted that Rav Ukva bar Chama might just as well have asked on our Mishnah from Rav Yitzchak bar Yosef Amar Rebbi Yochanan, who ruled that if a gall-bladder that became punctured is subsequently blocked by the liver - the animal is Kasher ...

(d)... posing a Kashya - why our Mishnah does not insert Nekuvas ha'Kaved (seeing as if the liver were to then become punctured at the same point, the animal would be T'reifah).

(e)In fact, our Mishnah omits the case of ...

1. ... Nekuvas ha'Kaved - because it is on account of the hole in the Marah that the animal reverts to being a T'reifah, and not the hole in the liver.

2. ... Nekuvas ha'Dofen - because it is on account of the hole in the lung that the animal reverts to being a T'reifah, and not the hole in the chest wall.

6)

(a)What did Shmuel reply, when Rabah bar bar Chanah asked him what the Din will be regarding an animal that has ulcers on its lung?

(b)If Rabah bar bar Chanah thought so too, why did he ask Shmuel for his opinion?

(c)The Talmidim's doubts were based on a statement by Rav Masna. What did Rav Masna say about a lung that is full of ...

1. ... pus?

2. ... clear water?

(d)If the Talmidim were correct in equating Malya Mugla with He'elsah Tzemachin, what was their mistake? If Rav Masna was not talking about the lungs, then what was he talking about?

6)

(a)When Rabah bar bar Chanah asked Shmuel what the Din will be regarding an animal that has ulcers on its lung, he replied that - it is Kasher.

(b)Even though Rabah bar bar Chanah thought so too, he nevertheless asked Shmuel for his opinion - because of a problem the Talmidim had with that, based on a statement by Rav Masna ...

(c)... who declared a lung that is full of ...

1. ... pus - T'reifah.

2. ... clear water - Kasher.

(d)Even though the Talmidim were correct in equating Malya Mugla with He'elsah Tzemachin - they erred in that Rav Masna was talking (not about the lungs, but) about the kidneys.

7)

(a)Rebbi Yitzchak bar Yosef was walking behind Rebbi Yirmiyah in the butcher's market. What did they see that prompted him to ask Rebbi Yirmiyah whether he would not like to purchase a nice piece of meat?

(b)What did Rebbi Yirmiyah really mean when he replied that he had no money on him?

(c)Accepting the answer at surface value, how did Rebbi Yitzchak bar Yosef offer to solve that problem?

(d)Rebbi Yirmiyah then cited Rebbi Yochanan, who had sent lungs with ulcers to Rebbi Yehudah b'Rebbi Shimon, who had in turn, declared them Kasher in the name of his brother Rebbi Elazar. Then why was Rebbi Yirmiyah hesitant to issue a ruling in the matter?

(e)So why did Rebbi Yochanan not declare them T'reifah?

7)

(a)Rebbi Yitzchak bar Yosef was walking behind Rebbi Yirmiyah in the butcher's market - when they saw lungs with ulcers. Curious to know Rebbi Yirmiyah's view in the matter, Rebbi Yitzchak bar Yosef asked him whether he would not like to purchase a nice piece of meat.

(b)When Rebbi Yirmiyah replied that he had no money on him - he really meant to put Rebbi Yitzchak bar Yosef off.

(c)Accepting the answer at surface value, Rebbi Yitzchak bar Yosef offered to solve that problem - by using his protectzia with the butchers and arrange credit on Rebbi Yirmiyah's behalf.

(d)Rebbi Yirmiyah then cited Rebbi Yochanan, who had sent lungs with ulcers to Rebbi Yehudah b'Rebbi Shimon, who had in turn, declared them Kasher in the name of his brother, Rebbi Elazar. Nevertheless, Rebbi Yirmiyah was hesitant to issue a ruling in the matter - because Rebbi Yochanan himself was not sure that they were Kasher.

(e)He (Rebbi Yochanan) did not on the other hand, declare them T'reifah, since the only reason that he did not declare them Kasher was because he did not have a tradition from his Rebbes that they were Kasher.

8)

(a)Rava was walking behind Rav Nachman in the tanners' market (or in the market of the Rabbanan [see Rabeinu Gershom]), when they came across some lungs with large ulcers. Why did Rava relate this episode? What is he coming to teach us?

(b)How did Rebbi Ami and Rebbi Asi react, when walking through the market place in Teverya, they came across Tinri Tinri? What are Tinri?

(c)Besides the fact that the Tinri are hard and an Atum (a stopped up lung) is not, how else can one distinguish between them?

8)

(a)Rava was walking behind Rav Nachman in the tanners' market (or in the market of the Rabbanan [see Rabeinu Gershom]), when they came across some lungs with large ulcers. Rava related this episode - to inform us that Rav Nachman said nothing to the butchers concerned, from which we can infer that he considers them Kasher.

(b)When walking through the market-place in Teverya, Rebbi Ami and Rebbi Asi came across 'Tinri Tinri' (meaning very large, dry ulcers) - they too, remained silent, a proof that they also consider them Kasher.

(c)Besides the fact that the Tinri are hard and an Atum (a stopped up lung) is not, one can also distinguish between them - inasmuch as, unlike Tinri, which resemble ulcers full of pus, an Atum does not differ in appearance from a healthy lung, only it cannot be inflated, in the way that a healthy lung can.

48b----------------------------------------48b

9)

(a)Rebbi Yochanan and his colleagues declare Kasher an animal in whose lungs a needle is found,. What do Resh Lakish and his colleagues say?

(b)We initially assume that their Machlokes is based on whether an internal Chesaron is considered a Chesaron or not. On what grounds do we consider our case a Chesaron at all?

(c)But we conclude that in fact, they are arguing over how the needle arrived in the lung. On what basis does ...

1. ... Resh Lakish assume that the needle must have pierced the lung, after arriving there via the Veshet (despite the fact that we did not find the hole in the lung through which it must have passed)?

2. ... Rebbi Yochanan assume that it arrived there directly via the Kaneh (without puncturing the lung), in spite of the fact that an animal does not generally swallow needles (or anything else) via its Kaneh?

9)

(a)Rebbi Yochanan and his colleagues declare Kasher an animal in whose lungs a needle is found. Resh Lakish and his colleagues - declare it T'reifah.

(b)We initially assume that their Machlokes is based on whether an internal Chesaron is considered a Chesaron or not - on the grounds that metal tends to corrode the flesh that surrounds it.

(c)But we conclude that in fact, they are arguing over how the needle arrived in the lungs:

1. Resh Lakish assumes that the needle must have pierced the lung, after arriving there via the Veshet (despite the fact that we did not find the hole in the lung through which it must have passed) - because an animal does not generally swallow foreign objects via its Kaneh.

2. Rebbi Yochanan assumes that, despite the fact that an animal does not generally swallow foreign objects via its Kaneh, the needle arrived there directly via the Kaneh (without puncturing the lung) - since no hole was found in the lung (and we do not assume something to have happened if we cannot see any sign that it did, as long as there is something else on which to attribute it).

10)

(a)We conclude that both opinions agree that an internal Chesaron is not considered a Chesaron. Besides the fact that we already concluded (in the case of Re'ah she'Nishpechah ke'Kiton) that it is not, on what grounds do we reject the version that reads that it is?

(b)Based on which principle do we rule like those who declare the animal Kasher (Rebbi Yochanan)?

(c)In which case will even Rebbi Yochanan agree that the animal is T'reifah?

(d)Why is that?

10)

(a)We conclude that both opinions agree that an internal Chesaron is not considered a Chesaron, rejecting the version that reads that it is a. because we already concluded (in the case of Re'ah she'Nishpechah ke'Kiton) that it is not, and b. - because if it was considered a Chesaron, then we would have no way of justifying Rebbi Yochanan's ruling.

(b)We rule like those who declare the animal Kasher (Rebbi Yochanan) - based on the principle that the Halachah is always like Rebbi Yochanan whenever he argues with Resh Lakish.

(c)Even Rebbi Yochanan will agree that the animal is T'reifah however, if part of the lung is also missing and is not therefore subject to inspection. The reason for that is ...

(d)... because, had they been able to inspect the entire lung, perhaps they would have discovered a hole.

11)

(a)When an animal was brought, first before Rebbi Ami and later before Rebbi Yitzchak Nafcha, what did each one in turn, want to rule?

(b)Rebbi Yirmiyah (or Rebbi Zerikah) queried them from our Mishnah Re'ah she'Nikvah O she'Chasrah, T'reifah? How did he interpret Chasrah?

(c)After ruling that the animal was Kasher, Rebbi Ami sent the animal to Rebbi Yitzchak Nafcha, because he had reservations about his ruling (which will be clarified shortly). How do we know that his Safek was not based on Rebbi Yirmiyah's Kashya (besides our having already refuted that Kashya earlier [Le'olam mi'ba'Chutz, u'le'Rebbi Shimon])?

11)

(a)When a lung with a needle in one of the Unos was brought before first before Rebbi Ami and later before Rebbi Yitzchak Nafcha each one in turn - wanted to declare the animal Kasher.

(b)Rebbi Yirmiyah (or Rebbi Zerikah), queried them however, from our Mishnah Re'ah she'Nikvah O she'Chasrah, T'reifah - which he interpreted as Chasrah mi'bi'Fenim (as we tried to do earlier).

(c)After ruling that the animal was Kasher, Rebbi Ami sent the animal to Rebbi Yitzchak Nafcha - because he had reservations about his ruling (which will be clarified shortly). His Safek cannot have based on Rebbi Yirmiyah's Kashya ('Le'olam mi'ba'Chutz, u'le'Rebbi Shimon'), firstly, because we already refuted that Kashya earlier and secondly - because when the She'eilah was sent back to him, he declared it T'reifah for a different reason, as we will now see.

12)

(a)When the She'eilah was sent back to Rebbi Ami, he declared the animal T'reifah. How did he reconcile this ruling with Rebbi Yochanan and his colleagues, who declared such an animal Kasher?

(b)What does Rav Nachman rule in a case of a Simpon (a blood-vessel) of the lung that is found to have a hole in it?

(c)Why is that?

(d)How do we then reconcile Rav Yochanan's ruling with that of Rav Nachman?

12)

(a)When the She'eilah was sent back to Rebbi Ami, he declared the animal T'reifah - because the lung was no longer available for inspection, since if it had been, maybe they would have discovered a hole in it (as we explained earlier); whereas Rebbi Yochanan and his colleagues, who declared it Kasher, did so only because the lung was available for inspection.

(b)In a case where a Simpon (a blood-vessel) of the lung is found to have a hole in it, Rav Nachman rules that - the animal is T'reifah ...

(c)... because he is speaking where the hole is found leading from one Simpon to another (which is hard and will not therefore seal the hole) ...

(d)... whereas Rebbi Yochanan is speaking where, even if a hole would have been found in the Simpon, it would have been located further down the Kaneh, where it would have been blocked by the flesh of the lung.

13)

(a)What does Rav Nachman rule in a case where a hole is found in a part of the Hadura de'Kanta (the large intestines surrounding the fatty part of the bowels) where it lies against another part of the intestines?

(b)How does Rav Ashi reconcile this with Rav Nachman's previous ruling, regarding a hole that is found in a Simpon, in a location where it borders on another Simpon?

(c)And he compares it to an animal whose legs are cut off at one point and it is Kasher, whereas if they are cut off at another point, they are T'reifah, even though this appears to be a contradiction. Which case is he referring to?

13)

(a)In a case where a hole is found in a part of the Hadura de'Kanta (the large intestines surrounding the fatty part of the bowels) where it lies against another part of the intestines, Rav Nachman rules that - it is Kasher.

(b)Rav Ashi reconciles this with Rav Nachman's previous ruling, regarding a hole that is found in a Simpon, in a location where it borders on another Simpon - with the statement that one cannot compare one case of T'reifus with another.

(c)And he compares it to an animal whose legs are cut at one point and it is Kasher, whereas if they are cut at another point, they are T'reifah - (where the former is cut off above the nerve-junction (but without the bone being broken), and the latter, below the nerve-junction [but where the bone is broken]), even though this appears to be a contradiction.

14)

(a)When the case of a lung with a needle in the large Simpon was brought before Resh Lakish and his colleagues, they declined to rule either Isur or Heter. We understand why they did not permit the animal. But why did they decline to forbid it?

(b)When a piece of liver was brought before Mar b'rei de'Rav Yosef containing a needle, what objection did Rav Ashi raise, when the latter wanted to declare the animal a T'reifah?

14)

(a)When the case of a lung with a needle in the large Simpon (of the lung) was brought before Resh Lakish and his colleagues, they declined to rule either Isur or Heter. We understand why they did not permit the animal. The reason that they declined to forbid it is - because the fact that the needle was found in the Simpon ha'Gadol indicates that it entered it via the Kaneh and not the Veshet (otherwise, how would it have arrived there)?

(b)When a piece of liver was brought before Mar b'rei de'Rav Yosef containing a needle, Rav Ashi objected when the latter wanted to declare the animal a T'reifah - on the grounds that a hole in the liver does not render the animal a T'reifah (so why should the needle)?

15)

(a)So what ruling did Rav Ashi issue depending on which way the needle was facing?

(b)Why is that?

(c)In which case will it make no difference which way the needle is facing?

15)

(a)Rav Ashi therefore ruled that - if the blunt end of the needle is pointing towards the animal's abdominal cavity and the point towards its head, the animal is T'reifah. But if the blunt end is facing the animal's head, it is Kasher ...

(b)... because in the former case, we assume that the needle entered the liver via the Veshet and the stomach, puncturing the wall of the intestines in the process, whereas in the latter case, it is unlikely to have entered the liver via the abdominal cavity, and we assume that it entered the liver via the Simpon of the Kaneh.

(c)It will make no difference which way the needle is facing however - in the case of a fine needle, such as the ones we use (which are sharp at both ends, and could well have entered the liver from the stomach and) which will render the animal a T'reifah.

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