CHULIN 31-43 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the Yahrzeit of her father, Rav Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rabbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away on 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study -- which was so important to him -- during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

(a)We learned in our Mishnah that if two people hold a knife at either end and Shecht together, and either one of them has the intention of Shechting to a mountain ... , the Shechitah is Pasul. How do Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak (according to whom one person cannot render somebody else's animal, Pasul) establish the Mishnah?

(b)The Beraisa from which we are about to query them further discusses 'ha'Metamei, ha'Meda'me ve'ha'Menasech'. What is the meaning of Meda'me?

1)

(a)We learned in our Mishnah that if two people hold a knife at either end and Shecht together, and either one of them has the intention of Shechting to a mountain ... , the Shechitah is Pasul. Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak (according to whom one person cannot render somebody else's animal) establish the Mishnah - where the Shochet with the Machsheves P'sul is actually a partner in the animal.

(b)The Beraisa from which we are about to query them further discusses 'ha'Metamei, ha'Meda'me ve'ha'Menasech.' Meda'me means that - he mixed his Terumah with his friend's Chulin (rendering it all Safek Terumah).

2)

(a)The Tana there rules 'be'Shogeg Patur, be'Meizid Chayav'. Why ought he to be Chayav even be'Shogeg?

(b)Then why is he ...

1. ... Patur?

2. ... Chayav be'Meizid?

(c)How do Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak establish the Beraisa?

(d)Why is the Mazik not Patur from paying in the case of Menasech, seeing as he is Chayav Misah, and we have a principle Kam leih be'de'Rabah mineih (someone who is subject to the death-penalty, is Patur from paying)?

2)

(a)The Tana there rules 'be'Shogeg Patur, be'Meizid Chayav'. He really ought to be Chayav even be'Shogeg - due to the principle Adam Mu'ad Le'olam (a person is always liable for damages that he causes, even if he does it be'Shogeg) ...

(b)... and the reason that he is ...

1. ... Patur is - because it is a Hezek she'Eino Nikar (a damage that is not discernible), for which the Torah does not obligate him to pay.

2. ... Chayav be'Meizid - because Chazal penalized him, obligating him to pay mi'de'Rabbanan.

(c)Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak establish this Beraisa (like they did, our Mishnah) - where the Mazik was a partner in the wine. Note, that we only asked from Menasech, not from Matamei and Meda'me, which are factually Asur, and do not depend on the Machshavah of the Oser (according to all opinions).

(d)The Mazik is not Patur in the case of Menasech, despite the fact that he is Chayav Misah, and we have a principle Kam leih be'de'Rabah mineih (someone who is subject to the death-penalty, is Patur from paying) - because the Chiyuv to pay took place the moment he picked up the wine to render it forbidden, whereas he is not Chayav Misah until he actually pours it out to Avodah-Zarah.

3)

(a)The Tana Kama of another Beraisa declares Asur, wine belonging to a Yisrael, which a Nochri is Menasech, not in front of the Avodas-Kochavim. What does Menasech mean in this case?

(b)What do Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira and Rebbi Yehudah ben Bava say?

(c)Rav Huna (who holds that through a positive act, Reuven can render Shimon's things forbidden), cannot hold like Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira and Rebbi Yehudah ben Bava. How do Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak reconcile their opinion with the Tana Kama? Why might he concede that, in their case, the wine will be permitted?

3)

(a)The Tana Kama of another Beraisa declares Asur, wine belonging to a Yisrael, which a Nochri is Menasech, but not in front of the idol. In this case, 'Menasech' means - placing his hands inside the barrel and shaking it in honor of the Avodas-Kochavim.

(b)Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira and Rebbi Yehudah ben Bava - permit the wine, because a. wine can only become Yayin Nesech in the presence of the idol and b. one person cannot render forbidden the property of another.

(c)Rav Huna (who holds that through a positive act, Reuven can render Shimon's things forbidden), cannot hold like Rebbi Yehudah ben Beseira and Rebbi Yehudah ben Bava. Rav Nachman, Rav Anan and Rav Yitzchak however, reconcile their opinion with the Tana Kama - by confining the Machlokes Tana'im to the act of a Nochri. The Tana Kama will concede however, that, in their case, the wine will be permitted, since a Yisrael cannot be serious about serving idols, and is obviously pulling the owner's leg.

4)

(a)Based on what we just said, how will Rav Nachman ... establish our Mishnah 'Shenayim Ochzin be'Sakin', and the Beraisa 'ha'Metamei, ve'ha'Meda'me, ve'ha'Menasech' (even assuming that the Mazik is not a partner)?

(b)Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava asked Rav Ashi whether, if Reuven (who is not a Mumar) after being warned by two witnesses not to pour out Shimon's wine to Avodah-Zarah, goes ahead and does so, the wine is forbidden or not. What did Rav Ashi reply?

4)

(a)Based on what we just said, Rav Nachman ... will establish our Mishnah 'Shenayim Ochzin be'Sakin', and the Beraisa 'ha'Metamei, ve'ha'Meda'me, ve'ha'Menasech' (even assuming that the Mazik is not a partner) - by a Yisrael Mumar.

(b)Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava asked Rav Ashi whether, if Reuven (who is not a Mumar) after being warned by two witnesses not to pour out Shimon's wine to Avodah-Zarah, goes ahead and does so, the wine is forbidden or not - to which he replied that - there is no greater Mumar than someone who sins accompanied by a declaration that he is willing to accept the death-penalty.

5)

(a)Why does our Mishnah forbid a Shochet to Shecht into ...

1. ... the sea or a river?

2. ... into a vessel?

(b)What does the Tana say about Shechting into a pit of water or into vessels on a boat (from which the blood pours into the sea)?

(c)Why does the Tana forbid Shechting into a pit?

(d)After prohibiting Shechting into a pit, what does he say about Shechting into a pit ...

1. ... in one's house?

2. ... in the main street?

5)

(a)Our Mishnah forbids a Shochet to Shecht into ...

1. ... the sea or a river - because people will accuse him of Shechting to the angel of the sea (Neptune).

2. ... into a vessel - because he might be accused of receiving the blood on behalf of his god.

(b)The Tana does however, permit Shechting into a pit of water or into vessels on a boat (from which the blood pours into the sea) - since it is obvious that he is only doing this to keep his boat clean.

(c)The Tana forbids Shechting into a pit - because the Tzedokim used to do this as part of a ritual to Avodah-Zarah. (We will discuss the discrepancy shortly).

(d)After prohibiting Shechting into a pit, the Tana rules that - Shechting into a pit ...

1. ... in one's house in order to collect the blood, is permitted.

2. ... in the main street is forbidden even if it is to collect the blood.

41b----------------------------------------41b

6)

(a)In spite of having forbidden to Shecht into the sea, the Tana permits Shechting into a pit of water? Why are we not afraid that people will suspect him of Shechting to his own reflection?

(b)How does Abaye try to reconcile the Metzi'asa of our Mishnah, which permits Shechting into a pit in one's house, with the Reisha, which forbids Shechting into a pit at all?

(c)On what grounds does Rava refute Abaye's answer?

6)

(a)In spite of having forbidden to Shecht into the sea, the Tana permits Shechting into a pit of water. We are not worried that people will suspect him of Shechting to his own reflection - because it is speaking where the water is murky.

(b)Abaye tries to reconcile the Metzi'asa of our Mishnah, which permits Shechting into a pit in one's house, with the Reisha, which forbids Shechting into a pit at all - by establishing the latter where the Shochet Shechts in the main street.

(c)Rava refutes Abaye's answer - based on the Seifa, which specifically forbids Shechting into a pit in the main street, implying that the Metzi'asa is not speaking in such a case.

7)

(a)How does Rava therefore explain the Metzi'asa and the Seifa, respectively? Why the difference?

(b)How do we prove Rava right?

(c)What does the Tana there say about someone who has no place on a boat to Shecht (presumably he is talking about Shechting a bird)? What should he do?

(d)The Tana cites the source for this prohibition as the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos "u've'Chukoseihem Lo Seilechu" (the prohibition of following Nochri customs). What does he say about a person who transgresses and Shechts in this way in the main street?

7)

(a)Rava therefore explains the Metzi'asa and the Seifa - by establishing them where one Shechts into an incline leading to the pit, which is permitted in one's back-yard (in order to keep it clean), but forbidden in the main street (since people are not generally concerned with keeping the streets clean.

(b)We prove Rava right - from a Beraisa, which supports this explanation.

(c)The Tana there states that someone who has no place on a boat to Shecht (presumably he is talking about Shechting a bird) - should stretch his hand over the side, and Shecht it on to the side of the boat, from where the blood will drip into the water.

(d)The Tana cites the source for this prohibition as the Pasuk in Acharei-Mos "u've'Chukoseihem Lo Seilechu" (the prohibition of following Nochri customs). And he rules that if a person transgresses and Shechts in this way in the main street - one needs to check whether he is not a Tzedoki.

8)

(a)The Tana Kama of our Mishnah invalidates the Shechitah of someone who Shechts Chulin ba'Chutz, but as an Olah, a Shelamim, an Asham Taluy, a Pesach or a Todah. Why is that?

(b)What does Rebbi Shimon say?

(c)What does the Tana say about two people who are holding the knife and Shechting, one S'tam, the other, having in mind one of the above?

(d)What does the Tana say about somebody who Shechts Chulin ba'Chutz as a Chatas, an Asham Vaday, a B'chor, Ma'aser Beheimah or a Temurah.

(e)Why the difference?

8)

(a)The Tana Kama of our Mishnah invalidates the Shechitah of someone who Shechts Chulin ba'Chutz, but as an Olah, a Shelamim, an Asham Taluy, a Pesach or a Todah - because the Chachamim are afraid that people will think that he has just declared the animal Hekdesh, and they will learn from him that Shechitas Chutz is permitted.

(b)Rebbi Shimon - validates the Shechitah (because he does not suspect people of jumping to such conclusions).

(c)The Tana rules that if two people are holding the knife and Shechting, one S'tam, the other, having in mind one of the above - the Shechitah is Pasul (like the Tana earlier in the Perek).

(d)As opposed to the Reisha, the Tana - validates the Shechitah of somebody who Shechts Chulin ba'Chutz as a Chatas, an Asham Vaday, a B'chor, Ma'aser Beheimah or a Temurah ...

(e)... since these Korbanos are not Nidar ve'Nidav (can only be brought to fulfill one's obligation), in which case there is nothing to suspect (as we will now see).

9)

(a)Which two Korbanos appear out of place in the first list (Olah, Shelamim, Asham Taluy, Pesach and Todah)?

(b)To answer the Kashya on Asham Taluy, Rebbi Yochanan establishes the author of the Mishnah as Rebbi Eliezer. What does Rebbi Eliezer say about an Asham Taluy?

(c)How does Rebbi Oshaya answer the Kashya on Pesach? On what grounds does it appear in the first list?

9)

(a)In the first list (Olah, Shelamim, Asham Taluy, Pesach and Todah) - Asham Taluy and Pesach, , appear out of place, seeing as they cannot be Nidar ve'Nidav

(b)To answer the Kashya on Asham Taluy, Rebbi Yochanan establishes the author of the Mishnah as Rebbi Eliezer - who permits one to donate an Asham every day (in case one inadvertently committed a sin that requires a Chatas).

(c)Rebbi Oshaya answers the Kashya on Pesach - by pointing out that although one cannot bring a Korban Pesach at any time, one can designate it any time during the year (rendering it Nidar ve'Nidav for our purpose).

10)

(a)Rebbi Yanai confines the Reisha of our Mishnah to animals without a blemish. Why is that?

(b)On what grounds does Rebbi Yochanan disagree with him?

10)

(a)Rebbi Yanai confines the Reisha of our Mishnah to animals without a blemish - because if they had a blemish, nobody would suspect the Shochet of Shechting a Ba'al-Mum as a Korban.

(b)Rebbi Yochanan disagrees with him however - because sometimes, the blemish is covered with the animal's wool or with dirt, so that people are not aware of it.

11)

(a)Rebbi Yochanan confines the Seifa to where the Shochet is not Chayav a Chatas. What will be the Din if he is?

(b)Why will people not suspect him of bringing the animal as his Chatas even if they are not aware that he is Chayav to bring one? Maybe he is Chayav a Chatas, but is too embarrassed to say so?

(c)What does Rebbi Avahu say in answer to the Kashya why anyone will think that he is bringing it as a Chatas if he did not say so?

(d)What will be the Din if we do not know that he is Chayav a Chatas, but he nevertheless says that he is Shechting it as his Chatas?

11)

(a)Rebbi Yochanan confines the Seifa to where the Shochet is not Chayav a Chatas, because if he is - people might suspect him of Shechting this animal as his Chatas (ba'Chutz ... ).

(b)They will not however, suspect him of bringing it as his Chatas, if they are not aware that he is Chayav to bring one - because if he was Chayav a Chatas, he would publicize the fact, so that the embarrassment will add to his Kaparah.

(c)In answer to the Kashya why anyone will think that he is bringing it as a Chatas if he did not say so - Rebbi Avahu establishes Rebbi Yochanan specifically where the owner declared that he is Shechting it as his Chatas.

(d)If we do not know that he is Chayav a Chatas, but he nevertheless says that he is Shechting it as his Chatas - people will simply not believe him and the Shechitah is Kasher.

12)

(a)What does Rebbi Elazar say about a case where someone Shechts Chulin ba'Chutz as a Temurah, and he actually has a Korban at home?

(b)What condition does Rebbi Avahu add to that?

(c)Why is this prohibition not so obvious? Why would we have thought that it should be permitted?

(d)What can we extrapolate from our Mishnah regarding a case where we do not know that he has a Korban at home?

(e)Why is it permitted in spite of his declaration?

12)

(a)Rebbi Elazar - invalidates the Shechitah of someone who actually has a Korban at home, and who Shechts Chulin ba'Chutz as a Temurah, because people will suspect him of Shechting that animal as a Temurah for his Korban.

(b)Rebbi Avahu adds that - he must also declare that he is bringing it as a Temurah for his Korban, before it will become forbidden (as he explained by Chatas according to Rebbi Yochanan).

(c)We might have thought that it should be permitted - because the Temurah is not standing next to the Korban.

(d)We can extrapolate from our Mishnah that in a case where we do not know that he has a Korban at home - the Shechitah is Kasher even if he declares that he is Shechting the animal as a Temurah for his Korban ...

(e)... and we do not suspect that people will think that he has a Korban at home, since we would have known about it if he had.

13)

(a)Our Mishnah concludes 'Zeh ha'Kelal, Kol Davar she'Hu Nidar ve'Nidav ... '. 'Kol Davar She'Nidar ve'Nidav ha'Shochet li'Shemo, Asur' comes to include Olas Nazir. Why does Olas Nazir require a special Ribuy, seeing as it is Nidar ve'Nidav?

(b)'ve'she'Eino Nidar ve'Nidav, ha'Shochet li'Shemo, Kasher' comes to include Olas Yoledes. Rebbi Elazar confines the case to where he has no wife, but if he had, the Shechitah would be Pasul. How does Rebbi Avahu establish it?

(c)Why is Rebbi Elazar's qualification not then obvious?

(d)Then why do we in fact, suspect that people will believe the husband?

13)

(a)Our Mishnah concludes 'Zeh ha'Kelal, Kol Davar she'Hu Nidar ve'Nidav ...'. 'Kol Davar She'Nidar ve'Nidav ha'Shochet li'Shemo, Asur' comes to include Olas Nazir which requires a special Ribuy (even though it is Nidar ve'Nidav) - to teach us that it is Asur, despite the fact that we are not aware that he made a Neder Nazir, since people might suspect him of having done so discreetly.

(b)'ve'she'Eino Nidar ve'Nidav, ha'Shochet li'Shemo, Kasher' comes to include Olas Yoledes. Rebbi Elazar confines the case to where he has no wife, but if he had, the Shechitah would be Pasul. Rebbi Avahu establishes it - where he specifically declared that he is Shechting the animal as his wife's Olas Yoledes (in the same way as he explained above).

(c)Rebbi Elazar's qualification is not so obvious however - because we might otherwise have thought that even if he had a wife, we would have known had she given birth. So people will not believe him.

(d)Nevertheless, we suspect that people will believe him - because they will assume that she gave birth to a still-born baby (that one tends not to publicise).

14)

(a)An alternative text omits the statements of Rebbi Elazar and Rebbi Avahu. What is then the case of the Yoledes whose Olah the Tana comes to include?

(b)Why is this Lashon preferable to the first one, based on ...

1. ... the Sugya that preceded it?

2. ... from the case itself, according to the first Lashon? What is the problem with that Lashon?

14)

(a)An alternative text omits the statements of Rebbi Elazar and of Rebbi Avahu, and the case of the Yoledes whose Olah the Tana comes to include is that - of a married woman (and the final Kashya and answer pertain directly to the Mishnah).

(b)This Lashon is preferable to the first one, because ...

1. ... the Sugya that preceded it - queries the Mishnah itself (and not the qualifying statements of the Amora'im, like the first Lashon).

2. ... from the case itself, according to the first Lashon - because if the Mishnah came to include a woman who was not married, it would be obvious that the animal is not an Olas Yoledes, in which case the Shechitah would be Kasher.

Hadran alach 'ha'Shochet'

OTHER D.A.F. RESOURCES
ON THIS DAF