CHULIN 31-43 - Two weeks of study material have been dedicated by Mrs. Estanne Abraham Fawer to honor the Yahrzeit of her father, Rav Mordechai ben Eliezer Zvi (Rabbi Morton Weiner) Z'L, who passed away on 18 Teves 5760. May the merit of supporting and advancing Dafyomi study -- which was so important to him -- during the weeks of his Yahrzeit serve as an Iluy for his Neshamah.

1)

(a)If someone Shechts an animal with the intention of sprinkling its blood or of burning its Cheilev for Avodah-Zarah, Rebbi Yochanan declares it Pasul. What does Resh Lakish say?

(b)What is the basis of their Machlokes?

(c)In which similar case by Beheimas Kodshim do they also argue?

(d)Having presented their Machlokes in the case of ...

1. ... ha'Shochet Liz'rok Damah la'Avodas-Kochavim, why do they need to repeat the Machlokes by Shachtah li'Shemah ... ?

2. ... Shachtah li'Shemah ... , why do they need to repeat the Machlokes by ha'Shochet Liz'rok Damah la'Avodas-Kochavim ... ?

1)

(a)If someone Shechts an animal with the intention of sprinkling its blood or of burning its Cheilev for Avodah-Zarah, Rebbi Yochanan declares it Pasul, Resh Lakish declares it Kasher.

(b)They are arguing as to - whether we learn Mechashvin me'Avodah la'Avodah Chutz (by Avodah Zarah) from P'nim (from Pigul of Kodshim [R. Yochanan]), or not (Resh Lakish).

(c)They also argue by Beheimas Kodshim - where someone Shechts a Chatas li'Shemah, with the intention of sprinkling its blood she'Lo li'Shemah.

(d)In spite of having presented their Machlokes in the case of ...

1. ... ha'Shochet Liz'rok Damah la'Avodas-Kochavim, they nevertheless need to repeat the Machlokes by Shachtah li'Shemah ... - to teach us that Resh Lakish does not even learn Kodshim (she'Lo li'Shemah) from Kodshim (Pigul).

2. ... Shachtah li'Shemah ... , they need to repeat the Machlokes by ha'Shochet Lizrok Damah la'Avodas-Kochavim to teach us that - Rebbi Yochanan even learns Chulin from Kodshim in this regard.

2)

(a)Rav Sheishes queries both Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish from Rebbi Yossi's Kal va'Chomer in our Mishnah. When the Tana says that by Chulin, a Machshavah does not render Pasul - why can he not mean this literally?

(b)Then what *does* he mean?

(c)How does Rav Sheishes now query ...

1. ... Resh Lakish? What does he extrapolate from Rebbi Yossi's Lashon 'u'Mah be'Makom she'ha'Machshavah *Poseles* be'Mukdashin'?

2. ... Rebbi Yochanan?

2)

(a)Rav Sheishes queries both Rebbi Yochanan and Resh Lakish from Rebbi Yossi's Kal va'Chomer in our Mishnah. When he (Rebbi Yossi) says that by Chulin, a Machshavah does not render Pasul, he cannot mean this literally - because we know that a Machsheves Avodah-Zarah does invalidate.

(b)What he must therefore mean is that - it does render Pasul from one Avodah to another.

(c)Rav Sheishes now queries ...

1. ... Resh Lakish from Rebbi Yossi 'u'Mah be'Makom she'ha'Machshavah Poseles be'Mukdashin' - which implies that by Kodshim at least, he holds Mechashvin me'Avodah la'Avodah (even with a Machshavah other than Pigul, since he said Poseles, rather than Mefageles)?

2. ... Rebbi Yochanan - from the other half of Rebbi Yossi's statement 'Makom she'Ein Machshavah Poseles', implying that by Chutz, Rebbi Yossi agrees that 'Ein Mechashvin me'Avodah la'Avodah'?

3)

(a)How do we answer the Kashya on Resh Lakish? What did he initially think when he heard from Rebbi Yochanan that Mechashvin me'Avodah la'Avodah, bi'Fenim?

(b)Rav Sheishes answers the Kashya on Rebbi Yochanan by establishing Rebbi Yossi by the four Avodos? Which four Avodos?

(c)How will he then explain 'Makom she'Ein Machshavah Poseles be'Chulin'? In what way is Chulin inferior to Kodshim in this regard?

3)

(a)We answer the Kashya on Resh Lakish - by establishing his Machlokes with Rebbi Yochanan before the latter (who was his Rebbe) had taught him our Mishnah, when he thought that Rebbi Yochanan's statement (Mechashvin me'Avodah la'Avodah bi'Fenim), was his own. But once he taught him the Mishnah, he immediately retracted.

(b)Rav Sheishes answers the Kashya on Rebbi Yochanan, by establishing Rebbi Yossi by the four Avodos - Shechitah, Kabalah, Zerikah and Holachah, all of which invalidate by other P'sulin [see Rashash on Rashi]) me'Avodah la'Avodah.

(c)And by 'Makom she'Ein Machshavah Poseles be'Chulin', Rebbi Yossi means that - by Chulin, Machshavah does not invalidate by four Avodos, only by two, namely, Shechitah and Zerikah.

4)

(a)From where do we know that Machshavah by Shechitah and Zerikah invalidate by Avodah-Zarah, but not by Kabalah and Holachah?

(b)Why does Machshavah by the Haktarah, which certainly pertains to Avodah Zarah, not invalidate?

4)

(a)Machshavah by Shechitah and Zerikah invalidate by Avodah-Zarah - because we have a Pasuk by each ("Zove'ach la'Elohim Yacharam" [Mishpatim] and "Bal Asich Niskeihem mi'Dam" [Tehilim], respectively) to teach us that they pertain to Avodah-Zarah, but not by Kabalah and Holachah - where there is no Pasuk.

(b)Neither does Machshavah invalidate by the Haktarah, which certainly pertains to Avodah Zarah - because even someone who burns Kodshim with the intention of eating them in the wrong time, does not invalidate them.

39b----------------------------------------39b

5)

(a)We cite a Beraisa in support of Rebbi Yochanan. What does the Tana there rule in a case where someone Shechts an animal in order to sprinkle its blood or to burn its Cheilev for Avodah-Zarah?

(b)What did Rav Chisda say in a case where one has such a Machshavah, but only after the completion of the Shechitah?

(c)He suggested that they did not declare the animal forbidden out of deference to the Rabbanan (who do not consider S'tam Machsheves Oved-Kochavim la'Avodas-Kochavim). Why did they not declare it permitted?

(d)What objection do we raise to Rav Chisda's dual statements? Why, in this case, might ...

1. ... the Rabbanan concede to Rebbi Eliezer that the Shechitah is Pasul?

2. ... Rebbi Eliezer concede to the Rabbanan that the Shechitah is Kasher?

5)

(a)We cite a Beraisa in support of Rebbi Yochanan. The Tana there rules that in a case where someone Shechts an animal in order to sprinkle its blood or to burn its Cheilev for Avodah-Zarah - it is Zivchei Meisim (a proof that we even learn Chutz from P'nim regarding Mechashvin me'Avodah la'Avodah).

(b)In a case where one has such a Machshavah, but only after the completion of the Shechitah - Rav Chisda said that they declined to issue any ruling, not Isur and not Heter.

(c)He suggested that they did not declare the animal forbidden out of deference to the Rabbanan (who do not consider S'tam Machsheves Oved-Kochavim la'Avodas-Kochavim). And they did not declare it permitted it - in deference to Rebbi Eliezer (who does).

(d)We object to Rav Chisda's dual statements however, because ...

1. ... on the one hand, the Rabbanan might concede to Rebbi Eliezer that the Shechitah is Pasul - because the specific Machshavah for Avodah-Zarah (albeit only afterwards) that he had there, reveals his initial intention (whereas in our Mishnah, there was no specific Machshavah at all).

2. ... on the other hand, Rebbi Eliezer might concede to the Rabbanan that the Shechitah is Kasher - because unlike in the case in our Mishnah, the Beraisa is speaking about a Yisrael (in which case he will perhaps not say S'tam Machshavah for Avodas-Kochavim (in spite of his Machshavah afterwards).

6)

(a)Rav Shizbi therefore explains that they declined to permit it, in deference to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel. What principle of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel is he referring to?

(b)We cite the Mishnah in Gitin, which rules that if a healthy man asks the people present to write his wife a Get, they are not in fact, his Sheluchim, and the Get that they write is invalid. Why is that?

(c)What did Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel rule, when such a case actually occurred, and after they had already written the Get and given it to the man's wife, he subsequently climbed on to the roof and fell off and died?

(d)How do we solve the Kashya that the story with Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel seems to contradict the Mishnah's initial ruling?

6)

(a)Rav Shizbi therefore explains that they declined to permit it, in deference to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel, who holds the principle - Hochi'ach Sofo al Techilaso (that what a person says or does at a later stage reflects on his previous words or actions).

(b)We cite the Mishnah in Gitin, which rules that if a healthy man asks the people present to write his wife a Get, they are not in fact, his Sheluchim, and the Get that they write is invalid - because he failed to say 'Kisvu u'Tenu' (Write it and give it to her).

(c)When such a case actually occurred, and after they had already written the Get and given it to the man's wife, he subsequently climbed on to the roof and fell off and died, Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel ruled that - if he jumped off the roof, then the Get is valid, whereas if the wind blew him off, it is not.

(d)To solve the Kashya that the story with Raban Shimon ben Gamliel seems to contradict the Mishnah's initial ruling - we add to the initial ruling 'Im Hochi'ach Sofo al Techilaso, Harei Zeh Get ... ' before the Mishnah relates the story.

7)

(a)What are we trying to prove from the Mishnah in Gitin?

(b)How do we reject the proof? Why is that case different than the case that we are trying to resolve?

(c)So Ravina cites a Beraisa where Re'uven, a Yisrael on his death-bed, writes his property, including Avadim Cana'anim, to Shimon, who is a Kohen and who declines to accept them. On what grounds does the Tana Kama permit the Avadim to eat Terumah?

(d)What does Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel say?

7)

(a)We are trying to prove from the Mishnah in Gitin that - this is the Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel referred to by Rav Shizbi, who holds 'Hochi'ach Sofo al Techilaso'.

(b)We reject the proof however, on the grounds that this case is different than the case that we are trying to resolve - seeing as the man there initially said 'Kisvu', whereas the Shochet in our case said nothing until afterwards.

(c)So Ravina cites a Beraisa where Re'uven, a Yisrael on his death-bed, writes his property, including Avadim Cana'anim, to Shimon who is a Kohen and who declines to accept them. The Tana Kama permits the Avadim to eat Terumah - because in spite of Shimon's refusal to accept the property, Reuven's property now belongs to him.

(d)Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel however, rules that - since Shimon declined to accept the property, it goes automatically to Reuven's heirs, who are Yisre'eilim, in which case - the Avadim are forbidden to eat Terumah.

8)

(a)What problem do we have with the Tana Kama's ruling?

(b)What does Rabah say about a case where Shimon ...

1. ... refuses to accept Reuven's gift from the outset?

2. ... accepts the gift, declaring only after receiving it, that he does not want it?

(c)How does he then establish the Machlokes?

(d)The Chachamim hold that due to his initial silence, he has acquired the property. What does Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel say?

(e)Then why was he initially silent?

(f)What have we now proved?

8)

(a)The problem with the Tana Kama's ruling is - why Shimon should acquire Reuven's property against his will.

(b)Rabah rules that if Shimon ...

1. ... refuses to accept Reuven's gift from the outset - everybody agrees that he does not acquire the property.

2. ... accepts the gift, declaring only after receiving it that he does not want it - then everybody agrees that he has acquired it.

(c)And he establishes the Machlokes - where Reuven initially gives the Sh'tar to a third person in front of Shimon, on behalf of Shimon, who is initially silent and who protests only when the Sh'tar is handed to him.

(d)The Chachamim hold that, due to his initial silence, he has acquired the property; whereas according to Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel - the fact that he protested upon receiving the Sh'tar, proves that he did not really want the gift in the first place ...

(e)... and the reason that he was initially silent was because he saw no point in protesting, as long as the Sh'tar was in the hands of a third person.

(f)This is the Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel to whim Rav Shizbi was referring.

9)

(a)Regarding the Machlokes between the Chachamim, Rebbi Eliezer and Rebbi Yossi, like whom does Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel rule?

9)

(a)Regarding the Machlokes between the Chachamim, Rebbi Eliezer and Rebbi Yossi - Rav Yehudah Amar Shmuel rules like Rebbi Yossi (that we do not say Zeh Mechashev ve'Zeh Oveid, even bi'Fenim).

10)

(a)What did the Arabs who came to Tzikunya stipulate when they gave the Jewish Shochtim some rams to Shecht?

(b)Why would Arabs require their animals to be Shechted? If they were too busy to kill the rams themselves, why did they not give them to their own butchers to kill?

(c)Rav Tuvi bar Rav Masna sent them to Rav Yosef to ask whether the skin and the flesh were permitted. What did he reply?

(d)Rav Acha b'rei de'Rav Ivya asked Rav Ashi what the Din will be according to Rebbi Eliezer, in a case where a Nochri gives a Shochet a Zuz for a piece of meat; whether the entire animal would be forbidden because of that one Zuz-worth or not. What did he reply?

10)

(a)The Arabs who came to Tzikunya gave the Jewish Shochtim some rams to Shecht - stipulating that the blood and the Cheilev must go to their god, whereas the Shochtim could keep the skin and the meat.

(b)Arabs require their animals to be Shechted - because they only eat meat that has been Shechted (even if the Shechitah takes place after it has died).

(c)Rav Tuvi bar Rav Masna sent them to Rav Yosef to ask whether the skin and the flesh were permitted. To which he replied that - in light of Rav Yehudah Amar Rav, who ruled like Rebbi Yossi, it is obvious that they were.

(d)Rav Acha b'rei de'Rav Ivya asked Rav Ashi what the Din will be according to Rebbi Eliezer, in a case where a Nochri gives a Shochet a Zuz for a piece of meat; whether the entire animal would be forbidden because of that one Zuz-worth or not. To which he replied that - it is forbidden, if the Nochri is a tough guy, whom the owner will not be able to persuade to take back his Zuz, in which case his Kinyan in the Zuz-worth of meat is absolute. Otherwise, it will be permitted.

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