WORMS IN ANIMALS AND FISH [worms: animals and fish]
67a - Question (Rav Yosef): If a worm separated (from produce) and died immediately, what is the law? (Is this included in "every Sheretz that swarms on the ground"?)
Questions (Rav Ashi): If a worm separated to the outside of the date, or to the outside of the date pit, or from one date to another, what is the law?
These questions are unresolved.
Version #1 (Rav Sheshes brei d'Rav Idi): Kukaini (worms in fish innards, or in the lungs or liver of an animal) are forbidden.
This is because they came from outside, i.e. they were ingested.
Objection (Rav Ashi): If they were ingested, they would be found in the end of the digestive tract!
Version #2 (Rav Sheshes brei d'Rav Idi): Kukaini are permitted.
This is because they grow from it (the fish or animal) itself.
(Rav Ashi): This is obvious. If they were ingested, they would be found in the end of the digestive tract! (end of Version #2)
The Halachah is, they are forbidden, because they enter through the Usiya (respiratory system) during sleep.
Worms underneath the skin in animals are forbidden. In fish, they are permitted.
Ravina asked his mother to mix fish worms with his fish, so he would eat them without seeing them.
Question (Rav Mesharshiya brei d'Rav Acha - Beraisa): "Es Nivlasam Teshaketzu" includes worms in animals.
Answer (Ravina): Animals (and worms inside) are forbidden until slaughtered. Shechitah does not permit the worm;
Fish are permitted without Shechitah, so also worms that grow inside are permitted.
68a (Mishnah): If one cut a piece from a fetus (and left it) inside, it may be eaten (after Shechitah);
If one cut from the spleen or kidneys, it is forbidden.
69a: "It (you will eat)" - when the animal is complete, what is inside is permitted, but not when part was cut off (what was cut is not permitted).
Question: If so, if one slaughters an animal and finds something resembling a dove inside, it should be permitted!
(R. Yochanan): If one slaughters an animal and finds something resembling a dove inside, it is forbidden.
Answer: The Torah permits "Perasos (two (i.e. split) hooves... in an animal)". A dove lacks this.
Rif (24a): Kukaini are worms in fish innards. They are forbidden, for they come from outside.
Rambam (Hilchos Ma'achalos Asuros 2:17): If a worm is found in fish innards or the brain of an animal, or in the meat, it is forbidden. If salted fish became wormy, the worms are permitted, just like Peros that became wormy after they were detached. One may eat them with the worms.
Rebuttal (Ra'avad): Also salted meat that became wormy is permitted! Regarding worms that were inside in its lifetime, we permit in fish and forbid in meat, for live fish are like dead fish. (They are permitted without Shechitah - PF.)
Magid Mishneh: It seems that the Rambam forbids all worms found in fish while alive. This is because they do not arise inside, rather, they enter through its nostrils. We permit worms in fish that arose after death. We forbid worms in meat, i.e. even after death. This is why the Gemara did not say 'in animals.' Animals are permitted only through Shechitah, therefore any living thing that comes from it, even after death, is permitted only through Shechitah, and this is impossible. Fish do not need Shechitah, so what grows in them grows b'Heter, like worms that grow in Peros. They are forbidden only if they separated. The Ra'avad holds like the Acharonim, who say that the Gemara discusses worms in fish innards. Perhaps they came from outside. Worms between the skin and flesh are permitted in fish and forbidden in meat. What arose after death is permitted even in animals. The Rashba says so. If it separated it is forbidden. Even if this was after death, it is forbidden due to Safek.
Rosh (3:69): Rashi explains that Rav Sheshes discusses worms in the lungs or liver (of animals). R. Tam challenged this, for in Version #2 he permitted them. We should have challenged him from the Beraisa that forbids worms in an animal, even though they grow from it! R. Tam explains that Rav Sheshes discusses worms in fish. 'Usiya' refers to the nostrils of a fish (Bava Basra 73b). Worms in fish grow amidst Heter. This refers to worms in its lifetime. Worms that grow in meat after Shechitah, or in fish and cheese, are permitted. Worms that separated onto dates are forbidden, for this is called "Shoretz Al ha'Aretz", i.e. if they separated alive. We do not forbid dead worms found in a bowl that fell from meat. We are not concerned lest they separated from the piece during life. Presumably what separated during life fell when the meat was rinsed. Sefer ha'Terumah says so. It would be proper to be concerned when meat is put in cold water in a pot. Perhaps worms separated to the walls of the pot, and this is not Revisei (what it grows in). The custom is to permit.
i. Beis Yosef (YD 84 DH veha'Gedelim): The Mordechai, Hagahos Maimoniyos and Semag also say like Sefer ha'Terumah. This is based on Rashi's text 'if it separated and died, what is the law?' Other texts say 'if it separated dead, what is the law?' If so, worms found in the bowl are forbidden, even if they separated after death, for this question was not resolved. Hagahos Sha'arei Dura says that the custom is to eat fish with white worms exuding from their bodies. They often leave partially and return. This is Revisei. Hagahos Ashri says that R. Shmuel permits worms in fish even if they separated to the top of the fish, and meat that became wormy due to heat, even if the worms separated to the top of the piece. This is Revisei. A worm that left a date is different, for normally it lives only in the pit. Rashbat forbids worms that totally separated from fish. The Rashba says that if fish or meat became wormy after death, it is permitted unless the worms separated onto the piece.
Tosfos (67b DH Lerabos): Why do we need a verse to forbid worms in animals? If one finds the form of a dove in a slaughtered animal, it is forbidden, because it does not have split hooves. The same applies to worms! I answer that the verse that permits a fetus in a slaughtered animal mentions hooves, therefore we permit only if it has split hooves. Worms in an animal come from the animal itself. If not for a verse, we would permit then, like the meat.
Shulchan Aruch (YD 84:16): All worms found in animals are forbidden, whether they are between the skin and the meat or in the intestines. In fish, worms found in the innards are forbidden, but those between the skin and the flesh or in the flesh are permitted.
Beis Yosef (DH Kol): Worms that grew inside an animal before Shechitah came from an Isur Ever Min ha'Chai. Shechitah of the animal does not permit the worm, for its life does not depend on the animal. A verse teaches that Shechitah of the mother permits a fetus, but here the worms remain forbidden. Tosfos, the Rosh and the Rashba say that Rav Sheshes discusses fish. This was the Rif's text. R. Tam forbids worms in fish only in the innards or similar places for which we can say that they came from outside. What is in the flesh of the fish is permitted, for it grows from it. Hagahos Ashri says so. I say that also Rashi forbids worms in fish innards, for we can say that they came from outside.
Gra (42): The Ge'onim say that the Gemara discusses fish. In most texts of the Gemara, it explicitly says so.
Rema: Even if they separated partially and returned they are permitted, for this is Revisei, to separate a little and return.
Shach (44): If they totally separated, they are forbidden. They are not permitted more than worms in cheese, below in the Rema.
Pri Chodosh (Sof 53): All worms that separated are forbidden, whether they were in beef, fish or Peros. All Rishonim forbid them, except for a tradition of Avi ha'Ezri that was not verified. Those who eat the worms should be excommunicated until they accept to stop.
Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): We forbid only worms in its lifetime.
Gra (44): We learn from Ravina's answer.
Note: Ravina answered 'animals (and worms inside) are forbidden until slaughtered...' This applies only before Shechitah. Slaughtered meat is permitted like fish!
Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): Worms that grow in meat after Shechitah, or in fish and cheese, are permitted as long as they did not separate. Therefore, worms in a bowl that fell from meat are permitted according to the opinion that permits. This is if it separated dead.
Shach (45): This refers to the opinion that permits regarding meat after Shechitah. Here the Mechaber permits what separated dead. In Sa'if 4, he brought that some forbid. The Mechaber holds that the lenient opinion is primary.
Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): We are not concerned lest it separated from the piece during life, for presumably what separated during life fell when the meat was rinsed.
Taz (23): This means that perhaps the worms separated in their lifetime.
Shulchan Aruch (ibid.): Some forbid worms that arise after Shechitah in anything that requires Shechitah.
Rema: The custom is to be lenient like the first opinion. The custom is to eat worms in cheese, even if they jump around on the cheese. If they totally separated, we forbid them.
Yam Shel Shlomo (3:104): Whatever comes due to excess fat or decay is not called a Sheretz at all. Sheretz is only what grows from the ground, or resembles Sheretz ha'Mayim. Worms that arise in cheese are permitted. What arises in meat is Asur due to Bal Teshaktzu, even if he is not repulsed.
ii. Taz (23): The Rosh and Tur say 'it would be proper to be concerned when meat is put in cold water in a pot. Perhaps worms separated to the walls of the pot, and this is not Revisei. The custom is to permit.' I.e. it would be proper to compare this to worms in Peros. The custom is based on the Rema, that some always permit regarding cheese. The Isur Sheretz applies only to what grows from the ground. Even if they totally separated, they are permitted. The Levush says that the lenient opinion holds that this is Revisei. This is wrong. Isur v'Heter and Darchei Moshe say like I said. Even so, they forbid in cheese when it totally separate, due to Mar'is Ayin (lest others think that one eats forbidden worms). It seems that the same applies to meat.
iii. Gra (46): The cheese is Revisei. This is unlike the outside of a date, for the worms do not live there. We learn from worms that grow in water in Kelim and pits.