BAVA BASRA 140 (17 Sivan) - Today's Daf is dedicated to the memory of Moshe Grun (Moshe Shlomo ben Michael) by his friend, Seymour, in Jerusalem.

1)

(a)We take for granted that if the father left a large estate which then 'dwindled' before the heirs had a chance to distribute it, then it has the Din of Nechasim Merubim, and the sons retain what they already inherited. How did the property diminish?

(b)How is it then divided?

(c)What She'eilah do we ask in the reverse case, where Nechasim Mu'atin became Nechasim Merubim (because the price of Mezonos dropped)? Why might the sons might not receive their full portion in spite of the rise?

(d)What did Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan rule in the case of Yesomim who sold Nechasim Mu'atin? How does this resolve our She'eilah?

1)

(a)We take for granted that if the father left a large estate which then 'dwindled' (either by the price of Mezonos rising or by the property getting spoiled) before the heirs had a chance to distribute it, then it has the Din of Nechasim Merubim, and the sons retain what they already inherited.

(b)The property is then divided according to Beis-Din's original assessment (at the time of their father's death), with each one losing proportionately.

(c)We ask what the Din will be in the reverse case, where Nechasim Mu'atin became Nechasim Merubim (because the price of Mezonos dropped). The sons might not receive their full portion in spite of the rise because Nechasim when a father dies leaving Nechasim Mu'atim, the sons lose their basic right to Nechasim Mu'atin (in which case, it is their sisters' property that went up in value), or whether the property remains basically theirs. According to the former assumption, it is the daughters' property that went up in price and the sons will not benefit from the rise; whereas according to the latter, it now has the Din of Nechasim Merubim.

(d)Rebbi Asi Amar Rebbi Yochanan rules that if Yesomim sold Nechasim Mu'atin, their sale is valid, a clear proof that Nechasim Mu'atin remains basically theirs.

2)

(a)Rebbi Yirmiyah asked Rebbi Avahu whether an Almanah detracts in a case of Nechasim Mu'atin. What is the case?

(b)Seeing as she is entitled to Mezonos, why might she nevertheless not detract?

(c)If she does not detract, and the sons inherit in spite of her, the Almanah shares what is left after the daughters have taken Mezonos, with the sons. What is the alternative explanation?

2)

(a)Rebbi Yirmiyah asked Rebbi Avahu whether an Almanah detracts in a case of Nechasim Mu'atin. The case is where there is only sufficient property to feed the sons and the daughters up to the time that the latter are due to reach the age of Bagrus.

(b)Despite the fact that she is entitled to Mezonos, she might not detract because she is only sustained up to the time that she gets married.

(c)If she does not detract, and the sons nevertheless inherit, the Almanah shares what is left after the daughters have taken Mezonos, with the sons. Alternatively, since the Almanah does not detract from the property, it is considered Nechasim Merubim which decreased, and all three of them are sustained from the property until there is nothing left.

3)

(a)Rebbi Yirmiyah then asked Rebbi Avahu about bas Ishto (from a previous marriage). What advantage does she have over the Almanah? Why, even assuming that an Almanah does not detract, might she?

(b)Why might she nevertheless also not detract by Nechasim Mu'atin?

(c)Assuming that she does not detract, how is the property then distributed?

3)

(a)Rebbi Yirmiyah then asked Rebbi Avahu about 'bas Ishto' (from a previous marriage), who has the advantage over the Almanah inasmuch as she receives Mezonos for five years even after she is married. Consequently, she might detract from the Nechasim, even assuming that the Almanah does not.

(b)Nevertheless, she might also not detract by Nechasim Mu'atin because she loses her rights to the Mezonos when she dies.

(c)Assuming that she does not detract, the property has a Din of Merubin ve'Nisma'atu, in which case, the sons inherit, and she is fed together with the daughters.

4)

(a)Bearing in mind that a creditor's heirs can still claim their father's debt after his death, why might a creditor nevertheless not detract from Nechasim Mu'atin?

(b)If he does, it is obvious that the creditor claims his debt, the daughters take the rest and the sons have to go begging. What happens in the event that he does not?

(c)Some cite the set of She'eilos in the reverse order. Starting with a creditor, what do we assume, before asking whether ...

1. ... bas Ishto detracts?

2. ... Almenaso detracts?

(d)What does Rebbi Yirmiyah finally ask about Almenaso u'Bito?

4)

(a)Despite the fact that a creditor's heirs can still claim their father's debt after his death, a creditor might nevertheless not detract from Nechasim Mu'atin because it has yet to be claimed (unlike the previous two cases, which are a Takanas Beis-Din).

(b)If he does, it is obvious that the creditor claims his debt, the daughters take the rest and the sons will have to go begging. But if he does not then the sons and daughters are sustained until the creditor claims his debt, after which, the daughters are sustained from the remainder, if there is anything left.

(c)Some cite the set of She'eilos in the reverse order. Starting with a creditor, before asking whether ...

1. ... bas Ishto detracts, we assume that the creditor does.

2. ... Almenaso detracts we assume that bas Ishto detracts too.

(d)Finally, Rebbi Yirmiyah asks, in a case where there are only Almenaso u'Bito (and no son) which of the two inherits first.

140b----------------------------------------140b

5)

(a)Rebbi Avahu seemed overwhelmed by all the She'eilos. What did he tell Rebbi Yirmiyah to do?

(b)How many of the She'eilos did he resolve?

(c)To do that, he quoted Rebbi Aba Amar Rebbi Asi. What did he say about 'Almanah Eitzel ha'Bas'?

5)

(a)Rebbi Avahu seemingly overwhelmed by all the She'eilos, told Rebbi Yirmiyah to go home and return the next day.

(b)By the next day, he had resolved one She'eilah, the last one.

(c)To do that, he quoted Rebbi Aba Amar Rebbi Asi, who said that Chazal made 'Almanah Eitzel ha'Bas' like 'Bas Eitzel Achin'. In other words, like a daughter when there are sons, the Almanah is fed from the estate, whilst the daughter is forced to go begging.

6)

(a)Abaye explains the statement of Admon in our Mishnah 'Bish'vil she'Ani Zachar Hifsadti' to mean that because a male learns Torah, he ought to benefit, not lose out. On what grounds does Rava refute Abaye's explanation?

(b)So how does Rava explain Admon?

6)

(a)Abaye explains the statement of Admon in our Mishnah 'Bish'vil she'Ani Zachar Hifsadti' to mean that because a male learns Torah, he ought to benefit, not lose out. Rava refutes that explanation however, on the grounds that if inheritance was connected with Torah-study, then a son who studies Torah ought to inherit, and one who doesn't, ought not.

(b)What Admon therefore means, says Rava, is that seeing as a male inherits everything by Nechasim Merubim, it doesn't make sense to say that he should lose out by Nechasim Mu'atin.

7)

(a)Our Mishnah now discusses a case where the deceased leaves behind sons, daughters and a Tumtum. What is a Tumtum?

(b)What does our Mishnah say about a Tumtum in the case of ...

1. ... Nechasim Merubim?

2. ... Nechasim Mu'atin?

(c)Does 'Dochin Oso Eitzel Nekeivos' necessarily mean that he is sustained like a daughter?

(d)Then why does the Tana use that Lashon?

7)

(a)Our Mishnah now discusses a case where the deceased leaves behind sons, daughters and a Tumtum a child whose sexual organs are covered (so that his sex cannot be determined).

(b)Our Mishnah says that in the case of ...

1. ... Nechasim Merubim the sons can tell the Tumtum to go to the daughters.

2. ... Nechasim Mu'atin the daughters can tell him to go to the sons.

(c)'Dochin Oso Eitzel Nekeivos' does not necessarily mean that he is fed like a daughter, as we shall see in the Sugya.

(d)The Tana nevertheless uses that Lashon to counter the Tumtum's claim that he is a male.

8)

(a)What does the Tana say in a case where a man declares ...

1. ... 'Im Teiled Ishti Zachar, Yitol Manah'?

2. ... 'Im Teiled Ishti Nekeivah, Titol Masayim'?

3. ... 'Im Zachar Manah, Im Nekeivah Masayim'?

(b)How do we know that the Tana does not mean that his wife gave birth to twins, and that the one takes a Manah and the other, Masayim?

(c)What would the Din be if his wife did indeed give birth to twins?

(d)In the previous case, should his wife give birth to a Tumtum, he will not receive anything. In which case will a Tumtum ...

1. ... receive like a son or daughter?

2. ... inherit 'his' father?

8)

(a)In a case where a man declares ...

1. ... 'Im Teiled Ishti Zachar, Yitol Manah' the Tana rules that if his wife gives birth to a boy, then he receives a Manah.

2. ... 'Im Teiled Ishti Nekeivah, Titol Masayim' then if she gives birth to a girl, the girl receives Masayim.

3. ... 'Im Zachar Manah, Im Nekeivah Masayim' then if his wife gives birth to a boy, he receives Manah, to a girl, she receives Masayim.

(b)The Tana cannot mean that his wife gave birth to twins, and that the one takes a Manah and the other, Masayim because that is not what he said.

(c)In fact, if his wife did indeed give birth to twins neither would receive anything.

(d)In the previous case, should his wife gave birth to a Tumtum, he will not receive anything. A Tumtum ...

1. ... will however, receive like a son or daughter if the father specifically stated 'Kol Mah she'Teiled Ishti'.

2. ... will even inherit 'his' father if he is the only child.

9)

(a)Our Mishnah rules in the Reisha, with regard to a Tumtum when there are Nechasim Merubim, 'ha'Zecharim Dochin Oso Eitzel ha'Banos'. Why is there a problem with this from the Seifa 'Yaldah Tumtum, Eino Notel'?

(b)How does Abaye establish the Reisha, in order to resolve this problem?

(c)Rava learns the Reisha literally (because he considers a Tumtum to be Safek), and establishes the Seifa like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel. What does Raban Shimon ben Gamliel say in the Mishnah in Temurah, about an animal that is a Tumtum or an Androginus?

(d)What is his reason?

9)

(a)Our Mishnah rules in the Reisha, with regard to a Tumtum when there are Nechasim Merubim, 'ha'Zecharim Dochin Oso Eitzel ha'Banos'. The problem with this from the Seifa 'Yaldah Tumtum, Eino Notel' is that the Reisha seems to consider a Tumtum a Safek, who takes either like a male or like a female, whereas the Seifa considers him an independent species, and he takes neither like a male, nor like a female.

(b)In order to resolve this problem, Abaye establishes the Reisha to mean that he ought to receive like a daughter by Nechasim Merubim, and like a son by Nechasim Mu'atin, but in fact, he doesn't (because he is considered an independent species, like we learn in the Seifa).

(c)Rava learns the Reisha literally (because he considers a Tumtum to be Safek), and establishes the Seifa like Raban Shimon ben Gamliel, who rules in the Mishnah in Temurah that an animal that is a Tumtum or an Androginus cannot be declared Kodshei Mizbe'ach ...

(d)... since it is neither a male nor a female, (and the Torah requires either the one or the other by Kodshim), but an independent species.

10)

(a)The Beraisa says 'Tumtum Yoresh ke'Ben, ve'Nizun ke'Bas'. How will Rava explain this Beraisa?

(b)What is the problem according to Abaye?

(c)How does Abaye counter the Kashya?

(d)So how does he finally interpret the Beraisa?

10)

(a)The Beraisa says 'Tumtum Yoresh ke'Ben, ve'Nizun ke'Bas', which Rava explains to mean Yoresh ke'Ben bi'Nechasim Mu'atin, ve'Nizun ke'Bas, bi'Nechasim Merubim'.

(b)The problem according to Abaye is how to interpret 'Nizun ke'Bas' (since, in fact, a Tumtum is not sustained at all, as we just explained).

(c)Abaye counters the Kashya by asking how Rava will explain 'Yoresh ke'Ben', when in fact, the Banim (who have to resort to begging) receive nothing.

(d)So he finally interprets the Beraisa like he explained our Mishnah and 'Nizun ke'Ben' means that he really ought to receive part of the Yerushah, but doesn't (with which Rava agrees); and that is how he interprets 'Nizun ke'Bas'.

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